Plagiarism...

[Pedalworld]

:P

[Silverface]

Now that's the most creative way of stopping an auction-theft I've ever seen!

Really good idea!

:D

[Dave Yeats]

I'm not sure that I would have bought the amp. My guess is that you found a lazy eBayer who recognized that your ad was very nice and copied it without regard to the ethics of the situation. I think I would have just emailed the seller and told him to end the auction or that you would notify the eBay authorities that he was using your pictures and text without your permission (both of which you own, regardless of whether or not it was posted elsewhere).

In any case, it seems like buying the amp to end the auction complicates things a great deal. Both of you are now open to negative feedback, etc, etc.

[Pedalworld]

:?

[Dave Yeats]

Coming along fine. I found a tube tester with a bunch of dakaware tips on it. They the pat. no. type (52-?), but that's what's on the model for my project (it has a non-original switch tip).

The body is off being finished right now, so I'll post pics when it's back.

The resistor I'm looking for is a 15K ohm, 1/2 watt, 10% tolerance (whatever all of that means).

I may use the lapsteel cap (.05 mfd), but it's a lot longer that what came in the Broadcasters.

Good luck shaming that guy for using your auction. Gotta keep those ebayers honest...

[Caper]

Take the picture again and get a piece of craft paper or something like that and write your ebay seller id on it, and place it in front of your ad.

[davidp158]

Question for ya: If the seller has the same amp, and just used your text and pictures, are you still obligated to buy HIS amp? I'm not suggesting what the seller did was right at all, but what if he really has another amp (just like the one in your/his ad) and you've bid on that amp?

I would have just contacted ebay, Inc. and let them know about this. If the seller is ripping people off, they should intervene. I don't think you buying this mystery amp will stop the seller from doing this again.

Dave Patterson

[hippietim]

Misrepresenting the item by using a picture that is not his is the only problem I see. That is clearly wrong since he doesn't call out the fact that it's not the actual item. But copying your description isn't a big deal. It's an excellent description that is well written. How is it hurting you or anyone else unless it is inaccurate?

[Ringo]

I had that happen once on a Boss GT 6 that I posted, Iknew that the guy copied my pic because I took it on an upstairs bed with a floral bedspread.
He also copied my ad description verbatim.
I contacted him and told him about it , also notified eBay, he had to end the auction and relist it with his "own" picture and description.

I think like someone else mentioned, you need to put something in the picture with your name if you want to stop folks from stealing your pictures.

It does rub me the wrong way too, but that's life in the "digital domain" !

[Silverface]

Tim - Did you actually READ the descriptions? Because by stealing the description, the other seller is flat lying. Here's part of it:

Here's a great, smoke free clean, mid-sized amp that has had very little playing time. It is in great LIKE-NEW CONDITION. It's compact size has no relation to its BIG sound. It's been used on a bench to tune and set up intonation and some lessons. I always thought it was kinda cool, so I took it out and could NOT BELIEVE HOW LOUD AND FULL the little thing sounded.

Now - Were both amps used on a bench to tune and set up intonation, etc etc?

No. It's fraud.

As far a stealing descriptions go, it ticks me off when someone steals mine. I spend my time as a cost-of-doing business to write descriptions. Other sellers can flat well pay me for my time if they want to use my words. Stealing pics is another issue - I *paid* for the camera...swiping my pics is simply stealing my money.

I detest eBay leech sellers who won't write their own copy or take their own pics and fully agree with taking action against them.

[hippietim]

Did you actually READ the descriptions? Because by stealing the description, the other seller is flat lying

Yes, I READ it. I guess I just don't get that worked up over it.

As far a stealing descriptions go, it ticks me off when someone steals mine. I spend my time as a cost-of-doing business to write descriptions. Other sellers can flat well pay me for my time if they want to use my words. Stealing pics is another issue - I *paid* for the camera...swiping my pics is simply stealing my money.

I just don't see the big deal. Ebay is a garage sale. Some people do "business" up there. Me, I just sell stuff I don't want anymore. If someone wants to snag my description, I could care less. If they can't afford a digital camera and want to snag my picture, I could care less. It's not like these descriptions and pictures are literary treasures and works of art.

This is one of those religious debates that nobody wins. We might as well be arguing about gun control or legalizing marijuana.

[Baard]

I think it is ok to copy something that you have paid for. Otherwise it´s stealing. Which may not seem like a big deal to hobbyists, but is disaster for people who tries to make a living on it, like musicians, writers, photographers etc.

Is it ok to steal a candy bar, but wrong to steal a car....

Interesting discussion. I have taken pic´s from fender, to sell a fender amp, but then again I paid for the amp...but not the photo on the web.....So I am stealing...or not ?


Baard

[hippietim]

I think it is ok to copy something that you have paid for. Otherwise it´s stealing. Which may not seem like a big deal to hobbyists, but is disaster for people who tries to make a living on it, like musicians, writers, photographers etc.

We're not talking about art. We're talking about descriptions of stuff for sale at a really big garage sale.

I work for a very large software company that loses BILLIONS of dollars due to theft. Believe me, I take that sort of thing very seriously.

Also, you may think it's ok to copy something you paid for, but the author or publisher may not.

[Pedalworld]

8)

[Pedalworld]

:P

[TeleGeir]

Hmmm... I was going to say, but things happened too fast, that you really should have contacted eBay and let them deal with it. This has nothing to do with the seriousness (or not) of the scam, as discussed above.

But much as people here may understand your reaction, eBay probably won't. To us it may be a giant fleemarket, but to them it is serious business. They have a reputation to maintain, therefore they cannot condone vigilante activities of any kind.

There was a recent posting about one of the people that had bidded on the Romanian guy to shut him up. He was temporarily suspended or banned by eBay.

So I think you will find once (if) he files his non-pay that you will receive an email from eBay saying something to the effect of "We sympathise, but this just will not do!" Followed by a warning of suspension or something. Actually, they probably won't say "We sympathise", sympathy is not part of the equation here on their part.

I assume that by filing he can avoid the charges, and so will do even if morally he is on rather thin ice...

Your email to him was fair, his reply not. I would contact eBay and enclose the conversation, if it becomes an issue.

Geir :)

[S0C7]

... is to notify the other bidders of this guy instead of bidding on it myself. Although I think it's funny that he's going to report you.

"Hey, I used this guy's pictures on my ebay auction for a completely different amp that the pictures in no way represent and he's trying to screw me."

[Abe]

My advice for next time-

See if he's using your pictures off your web host. If he hasn't taken the effort to download them and put them on his own host, get even.

As tasteless as it sounds, you can just spend about 10 minutes locating some nasty pictures (use your imagination - they don't have to be pornographic but that works, too). Copy them to your web host. Then delete the original images from your host, and rename the nasty images to have the same name.

Now his auction might be copied verbatim, but the images will get him banned from the 'Bay. You won't do the vigilante work, there will be plenty of people who will do the complaining for you. Especially if you take the time then to advertize the website around the net a bit to help his cause....

The evil-
Abe Mathews

[swingin guitarman]

I think it would have been better to simply report the infraction to EBay, and then let them handle it. What the guy did was wrong, however you may have gotten yourself into deeper trouble. You have bid on an auction with no intention of following through and paying. You did this deliberately to end the guy's auction and cost him the inconvenience and money of relisting the item. You have in effect manipulate/interfered with the auction process. Chances are EBay will be more inclined to come down harder on YOU. You have cost EBay money since they now have to refund this guy's commission fees for the auction, in addition to spending time processing the request and relisting the item.

You may not be worried about a single negative feedback comment, but what if the guy states that you intentionally manipulated and interfered with his auction? Most people understand that eventually everyone winds up with one or two negative feedbacks, but a valid complaint that you manipulated/interfered with an auction is a red flag. It will make other Ebayers wonder if YOUR auctions are fair and equitable. I certainly wouldn’t bid on an auction by such a seller. In the back of my mind I’d be worried the auction might be rigged (i.e., shill bidders, cancellations, etc.)

What’s done is done. My intention was not to lecture you, but to caution other Ebayers. It’s not worth losing you credibility and Ebay privileges just to prove a point. Sometimes the smart thing to do is to just let a minor infraction slide rather than take matters into your own hands.

[FrankenTex]

I am not a lawyer . . . This is not legal advice.
... these are unqualified musings and observations whiich are based on heresay, only. Any assumptions are merely speculation.

"A bid is a contract"

That was not a picture of AN Amplifier . . . That was a picture of YOUR amplifier. That was not a picture of a manufacturer's generic display prototype. That it was taken in someone's yard IMPLIES that the photo is that of one, particular, unique amplifier.

If you (or a good friend) actually own the property (the plants) and he does not have a signed commercial release form to use the image of your plants. As it is, this stance is a bit of a stretch, but a viable arguement. It would have been better if the property was a storefront or contained your license plate, etc.

That was a "one shot photo" for a one shot advert on a national, public forum. You had already made that photo available to anyone on this planet who wanted it. The amp is probably sold and gone.

>>> The picture is probably the property of eBay (for perpetuity) starting the very moment you upload to their site (check the fine print in the vendor agreement) so he didn't steal it from YOU but from eBay.<<<

You do not have to have a copyright symbol or notice on every work, but it sure helps.

The history you described AND the photo were both derived from one, individual, specific amplifier . . . YOUR amp (at the time). Neither the photo, nor the history were derived from HIS unique amp.

(1) He was fraudulent in his advertising.

(2) You have no claim or right to that photo (but eBay does)

(3) I don't think eBay will ban you (though they may want to) because, if they say you mad a bid without intention of paying, you will point out that you ARE willing to pay IF he can prove the amp he is selling is the one pictured. Since eBay archives all ads, you will have no problem proving that it was not his original submission.

(4) Further, because he DID defraud you, he CANNOT rightly trash your rating (which is VERY important).

I am with the others, though. eBay has grievance procedures and they (I'm pretty sure) own all ads and photos as soon as they are submitted. You would have been far better off (and so would everyone, including me) if you had just "told the teacher" about his bad behavior and allowed them to judiciate. eBay is holding all the cards. I am sure their agreement says they have the right to ban anyone for any reason and that they possess all right to all content on their site.

The worst that could happen is that you will both be summarily ejected. The best is that it would be declared a "no fault" sum zero case of mutual mishchief and you will both be issued a warning.

There are much more important things in life than "has been" eBay ads for a used amp. If you had used that valuable picture in another ad YOU would have been guilty of that same fraud!

I agree (with you) that what he did was sleezy and lazy and fraudulent. I am sure this roiled your sense of justice and you, naturally wanted to sting him (not for defrauding others but for stealing your "value" or just "all of that"). BUT that is where you lost perspective, got sucked into his mire, and over-reacted. Now you are all wrapped up in his slime and so am I !!! For what? Principal?

Tell me, right now, that you have never file shared, hacked your satellite dish, stolen cable services, plagerized, cheated on a test, stolen candy? We are talkin about human nature. This scamming fraud man, who stole your ad, is what is known as a "Petty Tyrant". He was sent into your life to teach you something about yourself. And to teach me about myself. We like to think we are getting away with something. Even stealing a bar of soap from an airliner is in that same vein. It is an icky vibe but this guy makes us fume because we recognize his corruption in ourselves. Even if you never took a bar of soap, that doesn't mean you didn't, at some point, want to.

I think we have all learned about all we could from this Petty Tyrant. He has served our development well. We can now move on without further "retardation".

I am not a lawyer.
:evil:

[Silverface]

Photos and descriptions taken by/written by the seller are indeed owned by the seller, not eBay. THey are copyrighted, whether or not the little "c" is on them.

The seller violated eBay policy and, if he files a NPB report is digging himself into a deeper hole.

As far as Tim's comments that he doesn't care if someone swipes his pictures or descriptions - fine, more power to you - many of us consider it theft and/or plagarism and eBay backs that thought up. It most certainly *is* fraud. It's not a religious debate - it's a legal situation. Next time you get a parking ticket, tell 'em soembody you know told you they didn't care so you thought it would be OK....

And I REALLY like Abe's idea - hehehehe......

[bdkphoto]

I won't add too much to the advice given above about how or how not to have dealt with Ebay, but I can clear up some issues about your photos being used.

The photos are your original work, are copyrighted when you created them, and you have every right to demand they be removed from his ad, or any other use, without your permission. Most ISP's and places like Ebay will remove the photos if you show that they were yours.

Good luck with Ebay, I hope there's no bad fallout for you, and maybe this guy will take the time to actually do his own work next time.

[Pedalworld]

[Paul in Colorado]

I saw an auction on ebay for a Mesa Boogie MK I reissue once. It seemed that I'd read the description before. I sure had, it was cut and paste from my review on Harmony Central of my amp. I notified the guy and gave him a little grief, but didn't ask him to pull it. I was taking a creative writing class at the time. I told my teacher about it and she was ready to track the guy down and shoot him. He plagerized my work without giving credit. And that ain't right. I thought it was pretty funny.

[FrankenTex]

Maybe you SHOULD agree to buy the amp ... then sue his tushy for fraud (triple damages plus expenses and fees). Sounds like he might even have commited a "verbal assault" with his beligerent language. He hasn't tried to intimidate or threaten you in any way? Labelled you as something that you are not? He could subpeona(sp) this thread if he were to be made aware of it so be careful not to call him anything you cannot accurately prove. Are we having fun yet?