Why are guitars so cheap now?

[blueshawk]

Honestly - I'm not joking...
I came across a site which works out, how much a given amount of money in some past year is worth now - http://www.eh.net/hmit/ppowerbp/
This site works in pounds ( and shillings and pence!) but I feel sure there will be equivalent sites working in US dollars and other currencies.

I fed in some of the prices that I have paid for guitars over the years and was amazed by the results.

1966 - Vox Ace - cost then £45, equivalent to £515 pounds now - for a desperately inferior guitar far worse than any current Strat copy costing less than £100

1972 ? Yamaha SG 45 (I think) - cost £95 - equivalent to £769 pounds now - for a very basic (non carved top) LP copy

1975 ? Hayman 3030 - cost £160 - equivalent to £824 - this was a very nice guitar but its equivalent now would be much cheaper

1978 - Ibanez MC300 - cost £320 - £1128 - phew!

What amazes me about this is how I had the equivalent to those sums of money in the past?

My most recent buy was a used (but perfect) Fender Nashville Power Tele - it cost me £400 - a real bargain by UK standards - its cost in 1966 pounds would be £35!!!!

Out of interest does anyone know how much a standard Tele was in 1966?

I guess that moving manufacture to emerging economies and the resulting competition must have played a big part in this reduction in cost?

So maybe this is the golden age of guitar construction - massive choice, mostly high quality and cheap prices! - that sounds like a good excuse to buy another one?.

[skip62]

Technology has assisted in lowering prices. CAD for designing, CNC for making the parts. Probably if you used that calculator on other things, you'd get the same results. Look a VCR's. I payed $625 for my first one 20 years ago. Now, probably $65.

[blauserk]

This is the upside of the relentless drive for efficiency and cost-cutting that results in relatively flat real wages and very flat benefits. Guitar manufacturers have become way more efficient over the past 40 years. That means that jobs at Fender and Gibson are much less desirable than they were years ago, but cheaper products for their customers. Also, many more guitars are manufactuered in low-wage countries, which both means a bunch of relatively cheap guitars, plus pressure on US facilities to keep costs low to be more in line with asian- and mexico-produced guitars.

[Oskar]

Cheap labor as well as cookie cutter production lines are lowering prices. Not only is labor cheap in assembling the guitar, but in making all the parts for it as well. I say "assemble" because at those prices these guitars are definitely not "crafted". Plus cheap quality materials. I've seen new Teles sell for $99. I think I'm in a minority here, but you really get what you pay for when buying a cheapo guitar. I personally wouldn't waste my money on one.

[Tiddles]

Hi Blueshawk,

Don’t know about 66 specifically, but Duchossoir gives the following prices:-

1951 Broadcaster $189-50 (or $149-50 for single Pup Esquire)
1968 Tele $229
1973 Std Tele $283
1980 Std Tele $635
1983 Tele Elite $550 (deliberate price reduction vs.1980 model)

Yeah, UK prices were certainly very high in 60’s & 70’s, and virtually nobody ever owned more than one guitar & one amp, & that was expected to last a lifetime, unless it got busted.

Ian.

Ps: where are you in the Potteries? I’ve lived all my life in London, but my parents came from Wolstanton, & as a kid I spent most summer holidays there (with aunts & uncles). Still remember the place fondly :? ! Used to get taken to watch Vale!

[eryque]

Partly, it's because manufacturers are always looking for ways to do things more quickly and more cheaply. There ain't a company around today that isn't more efficient than it was 10 years ago.

Partly it's because more and more production routines are automated, which makes them faster and more consistent. More output and less product wasted because it doesn't meet a standard of quality.

Partly it's because manufacturers figured out that things were over-built for a long time. This change is good and bad. It means you can get nice products cheaply. It also means they don't last as long. Cars are a great example of this. So are the cheap electronic components you can get at Radio Shack.

Partly it's because the workers are no longer making quite as much as they used to, in real money.

So, producers are getting more product out of workers that they pay less money, spending less on raw materials and components...

The upside is that folks with just a little bit of money can get things that are relative luxuries compared to what people earning low wages were able to afford in previous decades.

[Oskar]

is the product being created any better? In most cases probably not. It seems that products are now made to be disposable, both as a result of cheap labor & parts, and the rule of planned obsolescence (computers are notorious for this). Seems as if guitars are coming to this point. It is interesting to note that older amps & guitars are being recycled (also known as collectible), and I think that's good, with the exception of the high prices. Just as an example, you can't believe the amount of stereo equipment my brother (who's a pack rat) finds that people throw out, just because it's old or needs a minor repair. I'm not talking cheapo stuff. He's found Marantz, Denon, Nakamichi, Scott (older tube), etc. I take them, clean 'em up, fix them and give them away to people who don't have good stereos. I guess because we are a nation that is consumer driven that manufacturers want to make things cheap and not well so we can throw it out and buy a new one. I suppose it keeps the economy humming.

[buglecorps]

Cars are a great example of this.

Cars may not be as interesting or as tunable as in the past..(and I could debate that too..)but they last much longer without major overhall, most drivetrains are good for 200k + given basic service, in the 50's you were often rebuilding at 50K, in the 60-7Os 100K was about it, even in the 80 it was a deal to nurse more than 125K or so except for a handfull of high end euro stuff. Old interiors simply disintigrated, as did sheetmetal..Modern cars are a bit pricey...BUT even base models offer a combination of road holding and straighline performance(learn to shift for maximum fun) that would have required investing major$$ in specalized equipment even 15 years ago..service is also pricey, but much less is required, and despite what many say can easly be performed by the average owner. I have ben in the car game since the late '60s..what kills cars now is what killed cars then. Lack of service, and agressive driving, and using the vehicle for purposes other than for which it was designed (It's not a dumptruck, or a storage bin) It you run it hard and put it up wet..it's not gonna last..Same for guitars; many are a great value, amps too. Sure they are not "old school" as we remember, but most of the "great gear" of days gone buy, was pretty pricey, and beond the reach of many. and often times not that great! Now you can get a nice playable guitar and amp backed by a major makers warranty for a resonable price. If you think modern stuff is "not up to snuff" step in to the way back machine and check out what was on offer say 20 years ago..and at what price. Yes the big boys made some nice stuff, even for students..but it was $$$$new and often falling apart used.

[KingPussBlues]

Recently played an Ibanez AF85 Jazz Box... quality was outstanding and the price was way LOW at under $400. Love it! :D

[Colo Springs E]

Originally Posted by Oskar

I think I'm in a minority here, but you really get what you pay for when buying a cheapo guitar. I personally wouldn't waste my money on one.

....I agree. I think it'd be hard to find a new guitar for $149-$199 that plays/sounds well. However, when you get to the $299 mark, I think it is quite possible. Will it have hand-selected woods, impeccable fretwork, meticulously applied inlays, etc? Nope. But can it play and sound fine? Yup.

Personally, I'd never spend more than high-$100s for a guitar. I truly believe you don't get anything more for your money once you get beyond that $1k mark.

-Eric

[Rick J]

I'll try to dig out some of my old catalogues, (Selmer, Bells, etc.) but as far as I remember the UK price of a Fender Strat in 1968 or so was about GBP130, and a Tele about GBP120. At the time I was earning about GBP10 per week as a first year accountancy student, which today would be about GBP200 or so. So about 20 times more, which puts a 68 Tele or Strat to something around GBP2,400 -2,600, or more than three times the street price of an American Series guitar now at UK prices.

Needless to say, such things were way outside my price bracket, I had to make do, (like most of us) with a Hofner, paid GBP16 in 1966, still like paying over GBP300 in todays money for a used, not so great guitar.... I could buy a new Classic 50's Tele for that.

Rick J

[Bill Hullett]

One thing to note....I think that the $$$$ that Tiddle posted are exactly right because I WANTED a Tele in the mid 60's and thats what they were going for....and I Bought one brand new in 1972 for $249...But I think all the prices as he quoted them were WITH HARD SHELL CASES!!!!!! Cause thats the price I paid......(and I was too young and dumb to ask for a "deal") :-(
Bill Hullett

[Tiddles]

Hi Bill,

Ha,….well I did “cover” my tracks with that post – as I said “the prices are those given in Duchossoir’s book” :? .

Tids.

[Geo]

I bought a new Tele in '67 and it was right at $270
with case including sales tax. (I don't know the
tax rate, but it was in Pgh, PA.).
Turned out later that it was a "NOS" '66 model.
That was pretty much the going $$$ in the area
at that time. I spent quite a bit of time trying to find a
used Tele, within 100 miles, but finally gave up.
If you went to NY city say to Manny's you could get
it for less new.
(I didn't have the means then.)

[marshallmelloman]

Please sign me up on the waiting list for a cool stereo tube amp! :)

[Pvee]

There isn't much to a solid body guitar.
With cheap labor they can be produced much cheaper in the east. I have been buying and selling guitars for over 40 years.

I think many of them are hard to beat. You may or may not want to change pickups and tuners, your choice.

These companies make thousands of guitars a week under many of the popular names that we all like.

Now acoustics. They have started copying the popular bracing plans of Martins and other popular guitars.

Just look at the Blueridge models and the Breedlove Atlas series. Not to mention Carvin acoustics.

I don't think they are poorly made at all.
You may find a dud, but I find many Martins in stores that I don't think sound good.
Some of it is personal preference.

Now try to build one yourself.
Buy a kit for 300-400 dollars and spend 3-4 weeks making it and I bet the fit and finish will not be equal to a 200.00 epiphone, at least on your first try.
It's very interesting. Almost all major guitar companies now have an import line.

I wonder how it will all turn out.

[Martinp]

a couple of years ago I bought one of those Epiphone Les Paul Juniors, cost me $80, and he threw in a crappy 10 dollar gig bag.
the axe is terrific, solid body, bolt neck, one P90, and two knobs. I did a setup on it, and this sucker plays!, and it's practically indestructible.
they are out there, you just have to look
mp