Guitar wieght hanging from neck stand???

[Telething]

Hello folks.
This may seem like a crazy question, (don't laugh).
Has anyone come across any problems with the method of displaying their guitar by hanging it on a guitar tree stand over the years where the weight of the body over time could put strain on the neck joint as well as the truss rod.
I know guitars hang for years some times before being sold.
I thought of this the other day as i have a Hercules 3 guitar tree (stand) and the weight oh the guitar as you lift it to remove it from the release?
Just a honest Question

[gibsonjunkie]

I hang all my guitars on the wall. Never had a problem.

[mellecaster]

I view it as beneficial ......as in counteracting the tension of the strings, I prefer hanging by the neck, over a conventional stand or case storage...but I'm just going by my Gut...I'm sure some Engineer types will weigh in, and prove me wrong......

[Scott Auld]

Originally Posted by Telething

I know guitars hang for years some times before being sold.

I know a store where the same solidbody's been hanging since 1979. I'm not gonna tell you where it is (I don't think it's for sale anyway, it's just there for the owner to strum), but I think there's no problem with hanging them for a long time. :)

[PixelMover]

I highly recommend this Hercules wall mount with security arms: http://www.worldmusicsupply.com/guit...es/GSP39WB.asp
The weight of the guitar rotates the arms up into place guarding against the guitar being knocked out of the mount.

[shakewithsquier]

speaking from an engineering background I'd suggest that itd be mostly fine, but using some of my nowse id say that it could conceivably weaken glued-in necks like on les pauls (after a significant length of time) but as the bolt on style necks have perpendicular through the body and to the neck, they *should* be stronger when hung.

but i wouldnt worry at all, just vague assumptions!

[superbadj]

well since strings (depending on the size you use, and your tuning) can put upwards of 200 lbs of tension (pulling the tuners and bridge towards each other), with the stress focused on the neck and the neck-to-body joint, I'm thinking that reducing 7, 8, 10, 12 pounds of that pressure isn't going to cause any real problems with the neck, the joint, or anything else.

No worries.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by superbadj

well since strings (depending on the size you use, and your tuning) can put upwards of 200 lbs of tension (pulling the tuners and bridge towards each other), with the stress focused on the neck and the neck-to-body joint, I'm thinking that reducing 7, 8, 10, 12 pounds of that pressure isn't going to cause any real problems with the neck, the joint, or anything else.

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one in TV commercials, but I approve of this message.

[Fatmanstratman]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one in TV commercials, but I approve of this message.

Heh heh! Nice one, boris!....

No wonder you have an average post count of over 13 per day!.....

[shakewithsquier]

haha now i didnt know that there was that kind of tension in the strings, facinating what pains we put through our truss rods eh?

[PixelMover]

Originally Posted by shakewithsquier

haha now i didnt know that there was that kind of tension in the strings, facinating what pains we put through our truss rods eh?

What? You've never been glassy eyed endlessly wind your tuners and caught yourself staring at the package of strings and all of that tension information printed on the back?

I gotta get me a string winder...

[TELECASTERbstrd]

Originally Posted by Telething

Hello folks.
This may seem like a crazy question, (don't laugh).

Yes that is a crazy question and I will not laugh!
Hang 'em!

[PCR985]

I view it as beneficial ......as in counteracting the tension of the strings, I prefer hanging by the neck, over a conventional stand or case storage...but I'm just going by my Gut...I'm sure some Engineer types will weigh in, and prove me wrong......

I am an engineer (well, a software engineer) ... and in my 'professional' opinion, if hanging your guitar by the neck is counteracting the tension of the strings, then I would highly recommend tightening your neck screws.

[JDRNoPro]

The engineer in me agrees with what others have said - not harmful nor particulatly beneficial in offsetting string tension. Even the forces induced by string tension are well below the yield strength of either wood or a glued joint - which, of course is why they don't break absent some "help".

Jim

[Telephant]

I've always thought that it was counter-intuitive to think that hanging it would help the neck. The neck is designed to serve under the tension of the strings, so while hanging the tension on the neck is different than while in use. Over time does it affect it? Who knows, just my crazy thoughts. :)

I will say that my solid ash tele is so heavy as to inspire a little concern while hanging rather than sitting in a stand...my alder guitars seem just fine.

<----not an engineer btw :)

[gibsonjunkie]

My Tele is probably my lightest guitar at 6 1/2 pounds and my Les Paul is a boat anchor at 8 1/2 pounds (I hate to think what my ES-335 weighs). If it is any indication of how little hanging guitars hurts the necks, I rarely have to retune my guitars if they've been hanging for a few days without playing. Seems like that would say something.

[rhomco]

has legislation in work to prevent this kind of cruelty to guitars. No offense to you Ca. TDPRI brothers & sisters.

[Mightyaxeman]

I've owned a few Gibson's that did not do well on a wall hanger. One in particular, a flying v did not do well at all and constantly needed truss rod adjustment until I decided to leave it in it's case. Fenders seem to do alright though.

[Telething]

Thanks for all the input folks,
Points well taken,


Telething

[tdowns]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

I view it as beneficial ......as in counteracting the tension of the strings, I prefer hanging by the neck, over a conventional stand or case storage...but I'm just going by my Gut...I'm sure some Engineer types will weigh in, and prove me wrong......

Melle,
You know I have immense respect for you, and I would just as soon stick rusted jagged knitting needles in my eyeballs as to say your wrong, but I think you haven't thought it out enough. So I'm not gonna come on here and pontificate about it. I tested this first, so I have the data.

The combined force of the strings to the headstock comes from a vector on TOP of the bridge. For direction's sake, let's assume you are holding the guitar in a playing position. The force of that vector bends the neck in a direction away from your body. The truss rod counteracts this force and allows the action across the fretboard to be usable. If I were to push the back of the headstock forward (away from me), the pitch would go flat (like Redd does when he plays) because I relieving the neck. If I pull the headstock back towards me, it will go sharp, increasing the force on the strings.

When a guitar is hung vertically on a fork type stand under the headstock, the tension from the strings (~85 to 150lbs), keeps the neck "curled up". There is not much in the way of a gravity vector to "unbow" or relieve the neck since gravity is not perpendicular to the force.

However, the guitar laying down on its back will affect the tension of the strings MORE than hanging. That is a reason to NEVER set the bridge intonation with the guitar on a bench. It should be done holding the guitar normally. The neck is "flimsy" in one direction and very "rigid" in the other. You can sit there and push the headstock toward you or away from you and change the pitch significantly. Pushing the neck towards the floor or ceiling gets you no where.

Experiments:
Plug you guitar into a good tuner while holding the guitar in a playing position and tune any open string up to 440 pitch as accurately as possible. Pluck the string. While the note is still ringing, turn the guitar over on it back. Make sure you are not touching the neck. The pitch increases for me by ~5 cents.

While holding the guitar in a playing position, the tuning is still on 440 as accurately as possible. Pluck the string. While the note is still ringing, turn the guitar face down. Make sure you are not touching the neck. The pitch decreases for me by ~5 cents.

When I did the same and held the guitar vertical like a wall hanger, I could not measure a change.

In summary what I surmise iz, the force created by gravity would reduce the tension of the strings IF the force could bend the neck forward. The neck is very structurally rigid lengthwise. It is only easy to bend in one axis.

Of course all this would vary with neck thicknesses, string tension, quartersawn neck, density of wood, and phase of the moon.

Try it yourself and let me know your results. This is fun.

If nothing else this post should raise the awareness level of intonating guitars in the playing position only. I've never seen that mentioned on the TDPRI, but that don't mean it ain't here somewhere.

BTW, that is a great question. It's not going to hurt the guitar to hang it vertically. I'd be more concerned the dust collection aspect and with the material of the hanger to make sure it will not harmfully interact with the neck finish. NO URETHANES!!!