Doctor, Doctor--Behind the nut bending info

Paul G. · April 26th, 2003, 08:12 AM

I've been doing it more on my Tele lately, but with 10s it can be painful.

Any drawbacks (tone, tuning, etc.) to putting some heat shrink tubing, or insulation over the B & G strings behind the nut to act as padding?

Any other suggestions? I don't want to go to 9s or 8s, but really like the way those behind the nut bends sound when you mix open strings in there for a ringing quality.

Any help appreciated.

P.

5965 · April 26th, 2003, 10:49 AM

I wouldn't think so, not sonically, at least. The string trees sometimes used on those strings are there partially to keep vibrations from being transmitted to them. The vibrations you'd be killing would likely be unwanted, anyway.

BrianF · April 26th, 2003, 11:53 AM

I don't have a heat gun so my clear heat shrink tubing slides around more than I'd like...but otherwise it works GREAT!

triplestop · April 26th, 2003, 01:10 PM

I wouldn't use a heat gun up around that area anyway, just my opinion. but a lighter would do the trick safely. glad it works good for ya! that tecnique is pretty cool, adding a nice attitude to the phrasing.

spyder · April 26th, 2003, 01:19 PM

Ho...I don't think a person needs to use anything special on the strings for behind the nut bends.....understand its a matter of touch...you need to feel the bare string against bare flesh...... eventually callouses will develop.....some guys have a replacement nut made of harder material installed for 'em ( its hard for me to type that out...I don't know any other way to say it).....like bone for example...have heard of damaging the nut...hence the stronger nut material....one thing I've noticed on my axe is little string pits on the wood behind the nut.....barely noticable, they ain't bothering me...I won't bother them...later spyder...( a favorite of luthiers everywhere...except parts of the west, east coasts...and much of the in between areas)

BrianF · April 26th, 2003, 02:41 PM

When you have 2 fingers on the bended string...you can withstand the discomfort and get used to it....

However...when your combining the behind the nut bend on the b string while simutaneously fingering a fretted note (say 2nd fret third string)....you only have one finger to do the bend above the nut. When 2 fingers are anchored on the bend...it makes it real hard to stretch your ring finger up to the fretted note.

The heat shrink tubing on the B string makes it REAL easy to pull off this trick with only 2 fingers...index for the bend and ring finger for the fretted note.

re: heat gun....use it only while the string is being installed (not wound onto the tuning peg yet). It should be tight enough to re-position manually but not loose enough to move around in it's own after the string is installed onto the peg.

I didn't have any luck using a lighter on the heat shrink...I tried this...it's too hot and melts and blackens the tubing. Maybe I wasn't careful enough..it might work with more care taken.

Paul G. · April 26th, 2003, 05:42 PM

I'm going to try it when I restring.

P.

MikefromOZ · April 26th, 2003, 08:57 PM

Have you thaught about Using some Insulated wire.Its easy to Do. Just cut about a 2 and a half inch piece of say 4 to 6 mm auto elec wire. Strip one end pull out a couple of wires first then the rest.and you have a reusable padding this is much more easier on the fingers than heatshrink.You can use different guage insulatedwire to get a better fit on the string ect. hope this Helps ...Mike.

MandyMarie · April 26th, 2003, 09:55 PM

I don't have any suggestions but I do have a question -

I was about 14 when I got the James Burton instructional video and it was the first time I had ever seen anyone bend like that behind the nut - sitting there with a Tele (strung with 10's) in my lap, I gave it a shot and sliced the holy heck out of my index finger. I used the side part of my finger, behind the callus, rather than the callused tip and it was quite a slice.

Has this ever happened to anyone else? I haven't had it happen since and I still think about it from time to time and shudder when I do the occassional behind the nut shake 'n bend.

Tim Bowen · April 27th, 2003, 04:19 PM

... but yeah, I think it's just another one of those things that just sorta smarts until you build up the different callouses, as mentioned above.

Here's one of my faves:

In the key of G - Play a 12th fret harmonic, but "rake" backwards, catching the 3rd, 4th, & 5th strings, which implies Gsus2. Resolve it by bending the 5th string behind the nut, up a whole step to the 3rd. Sounds like pedal steel, but with harmonics. Similar deal on the 4th, 5th, & 6th strings for the key of D. There's other stuff at the 5th, 7th, & 19th frets, check it out...

I end a couple of tunes this way, so it has to sustain a while, and I roll off the volume pot with the other hand. And yes, the longer I hold it the more it ouches... building tougher fingers for a better tomorrow...

ye olde fretmonkey · April 27th, 2003, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul G.

I've been doing it more on my Tele lately, but with 10s it can be painful.

Any drawbacks (tone, tuning, etc.) to putting some heat shrink tubing, or insulation over the B & G strings behind the nut to act as padding?

Any other suggestions? I don't want to go to 9s or 8s, but really like the way those behind the nut bends sound when you mix open strings in there for a ringing quality.

Any help appreciated.

P.

you ought to try it with lls or l2s!

owwwww...

Paul G. · April 27th, 2003, 10:56 PM

All I can say is OW!!

April 26th, 2003, 08:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Paul G. Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 885	Doctor, Doctor--Behind the nut bending info I've been doing it more on my Tele lately, but with 10s it can be painful. Any drawbacks (tone, tuning, etc.) to putting some heat shrink tubing, or insulation over the B & G strings behind the nut to act as padding? Any other suggestions? I don't want to go to 9s or 8s, but really like the way those behind the nut bends sound when you mix open strings in there for a ringing quality. Any help appreciated. P. __________________ Listen to your mother

April 26th, 2003, 11:53 AM	#3 (permalink)
BrianF Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carlsbad, Ca Posts: 2,096 7 Photos	Use the heat-shrink tubing! I don't have a heat gun so my clear heat shrink tubing slides around more than I'd like...but otherwise it works GREAT!

April 26th, 2003, 01:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
triplestop TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: austin, tx Posts: 43	I wouldn't use a heat gun up around that area anyway, just my opinion. but a lighter would do the trick safely. glad it works good for ya! that tecnique is pretty cool, adding a nice attitude to the phrasing. __________________ forward mobility in life is fueled by the passion to which we must yield for existence.

April 26th, 2003, 01:19 PM	#5 (permalink)
spyder Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: chillicothe, ohio Posts: 530	behind nut thing... Ho...I don't think a person needs to use anything special on the strings for behind the nut bends.....understand its a matter of touch...you need to feel the bare string against bare flesh...... eventually callouses will develop.....some guys have a replacement nut made of harder material installed for 'em ( its hard for me to type that out...I don't know any other way to say it).....like bone for example...have heard of damaging the nut...hence the stronger nut material....one thing I've noticed on my axe is little string pits on the wood behind the nut.....barely noticable, they ain't bothering me...I won't bother them...later spyder...( a favorite of luthiers everywhere...except parts of the west, east coasts...and much of the in between areas)

April 26th, 2003, 02:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
BrianF Friend of Leo's Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Carlsbad, Ca Posts: 2,096 7 Photos	I agree but.... When you have 2 fingers on the bended string...you can withstand the discomfort and get used to it.... However...when your combining the behind the nut bend on the b string while simutaneously fingering a fretted note (say 2nd fret third string)....you only have one finger to do the bend above the nut. When 2 fingers are anchored on the bend...it makes it real hard to stretch your ring finger up to the fretted note. The heat shrink tubing on the B string makes it REAL easy to pull off this trick with only 2 fingers...index for the bend and ring finger for the fretted note. re: heat gun....use it only while the string is being installed (not wound onto the tuning peg yet). It should be tight enough to re-position manually but not loose enough to move around in it's own after the string is installed onto the peg. I didn't have any luck using a lighter on the heat shrink...I tried this...it's too hot and melts and blackens the tubing. Maybe I wasn't careful enough..it might work with more care taken.

April 26th, 2003, 10:49 AM	#2 (permalink)
5965 Tele-Holic Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 724	I wouldn't think so, not sonically, at least. The string trees sometimes used on those strings are there partially to keep vibrations from being transmitted to them. The vibrations you'd be killing would likely be unwanted, anyway.

April 26th, 2003, 05:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Paul G. Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 885	Thanks everybody I'm going to try it when I restring. P.

April 26th, 2003, 08:57 PM	#8 (permalink)
MikefromOZ TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 89	Wire Insulation ?? Have you thaught about Using some Insulated wire.Its easy to Do. Just cut about a 2 and a half inch piece of say 4 to 6 mm auto elec wire. Strip one end pull out a couple of wires first then the rest.and you have a reusable padding this is much more easier on the fingers than heatshrink.You can use different guage insulatedwire to get a better fit on the string ect. hope this Helps ...Mike.

April 26th, 2003, 09:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
MandyMarie Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Age: 28 Posts: 2,353 65 Photos	I don't have any suggestions but I do have a question - I was about 14 when I got the James Burton instructional video and it was the first time I had ever seen anyone bend like that behind the nut - sitting there with a Tele (strung with 10's) in my lap, I gave it a shot and sliced the holy heck out of my index finger. I used the side part of my finger, behind the callus, rather than the callused tip and it was quite a slice. Has this ever happened to anyone else? I haven't had it happen since and I still think about it from time to time and shudder when I do the occassional behind the nut shake 'n bend.

April 27th, 2003, 04:19 PM	#10 (permalink)
Tim Bowen Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Age: 47 Posts: 3,054	Hey, at least it's easier on Tele's... ... but yeah, I think it's just another one of those things that just sorta smarts until you build up the different callouses, as mentioned above. Here's one of my faves: In the key of G - Play a 12th fret harmonic, but "rake" backwards, catching the 3rd, 4th, & 5th strings, which implies Gsus2. Resolve it by bending the 5th string behind the nut, up a whole step to the 3rd. Sounds like pedal steel, but with harmonics. Similar deal on the 4th, 5th, & 6th strings for the key of D. There's other stuff at the 5th, 7th, & 19th frets, check it out... I end a couple of tunes this way, so it has to sustain a while, and I roll off the volume pot with the other hand. And yes, the longer I hold it the more it ouches... building tougher fingers for a better tomorrow... __________________ Can't say, 'cause I don't know. - Bullwinkle

April 27th, 2003, 10:56 PM	#12 (permalink)
Paul G. Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 885	Hey Fretmonkey! All I can say is OW!!