Planet waves circuit-breaker cables - are they battery savers too?

tjalla · July 5th, 2008, 11:42 AM

The PW plugs with the on/off switch to prevent popping when unplugging your guitar - I was wondering if they also prevent battery drainage from pedals or guitars with active pickup systems ie can I just press the button during set breaks on my acoustic (active preamp)

Does anyone know, or understand what's going on electrically inside the plug?

Trev

dobrodoc · July 5th, 2008, 01:01 PM

Don't know about the plug, but if it's left plugged in a pedal, the battery WILL be drained. The jack in the pedal makes when the plug is inserted, turning the pedal on.

Lance · July 5th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Short answer : NO

tjalla · July 5th, 2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dobrodoc

Don't know about the plug, but if it's left plugged in a pedal, the battery WILL be drained. The jack in the pedal makes when the plug is inserted, turning the pedal on.

I know about plugging into pedals will drain the batteries, just wondering if the switch makes any difference.

Lance, hit me with the long answer! Please!

Rick J · July 5th, 2008, 02:50 PM

is that the business bit of the PW cable is at the guitar end, and is a simple make/break switch, which just shorts out the cable when engaged. What goes on at the pedal end or the guitar end is detected by the pedal or preamp by the actual presence of the plug shaft into the jacksocket either in the pedal or the guitar, the action of insertion being the make/break in this case. Its not in any way dependent on the conductivity of the cable, just the metal tube being in the socket.

So - no battery savings!

Rick J

tjalla · July 5th, 2008, 02:55 PM

Cool. Thanks Rick... I was hoping the PW would break conductivity, but looks like I have to unplug. Oh the hassle!

Lance · July 5th, 2008, 02:59 PM

Sorry for the delay.....

What he said! ;)

It's actually pretty simple. When you insert the plug into the jack on the pedal, it closes the contacts in the pedal to turn the power on.

Get a screwdriver and pop the back off a pedal of yours and you'll go...."OH - that's how it works!" It's pretty obvious when you put your eyeballs on it.

tjalla · July 5th, 2008, 03:05 PM

I think I get it, its a physical connection dependent on the actual barrel of the jack, not the connection to the wires. Thanks guys!

tdowns · July 5th, 2008, 07:16 PM

The input jack to most all pedals is a 1/4" STEREO phone jack, designed for headphone use that has a tip, ring, and sleeve. See the illustration below (linked from Wikipedia).

1. Sleeve: usually ground
2. Ring: Right-hand channel for stereo signals, negative phase for balanced mono signals, power supply for power-requiring mono signal sources
3. Tip: Left-hand channel for stereo signals, positive phase for balanced mono signals, signal line for unbalanced mono signals
4. Insulating rings

The negative terminal of the battery of the pedal is connected to the jack connection for the Ring. When a regular MONO plug (only has a tip and sleeve like your guitar cord) is inserted, the sleeve grounds the jack terminal that is intended for a Ring and the battery is connected.

If you used a STEREO plug going to a pedal that had the ring disconnected, the pedal would not power up.

The PW cable is just a switch that shorts out the signal to ground. It will have no effect on battery drain. Nice though tho....

Nick JD · July 5th, 2008, 07:24 PM

What about a mercury switch that completed the preamp battery circuit when the guitar was held horizontally. On the stand it turned itself off.

jhundt · July 6th, 2008, 01:08 AM

Quote:

...I was hoping the PW would break conductivity, but looks like I have to unplug. Oh the hassle!

tjalla - you said it! It is the easiest, most simple thing to do, isn't it... you just unplug your guitar cable from the footswitch when you stop playing. Your batteries will last for weeks, even months! What could be easier? Any fool can remember to unplug his guitar....

Except ME! I can not even count how many times I have walked away and left that darn thing plugged in. I have killed millions of 9 Volt batteries. They might be an endangered species now because of me.

Then I go back to play and I see the cable plugged in and I think "oh no! not again!". The worst part is that these days the only pedal I use is a little Dano slap-back thing. When the battery runs low that little pedal squeals really, really loud and hard and scares the beejesus out of me and my family, and the cats hide under the bed.

Stewart Ward · July 6th, 2008, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdowns

The negative terminal of the battery of the pedal is connected to the jack connection for the Ring. When a regular MONO plug (only has a tip and sleeve like your guitar cord) is inserted, the sleeve grounds the jack terminal that is intended for a Ring and the battery is connected.

If you used a STEREO plug going to a pedal that had the ring disconnected, the pedal would not power up.

The PW cable is just a switch that shorts out the signal to ground. It will have no effect on battery drain. Nice though tho....

Well, many pedals employ an input jack socket that has a separate switch to connect the battery to the pedal's ground circuit when the jack plug is inserted.

The down side of using the method described by Terry (no disrespect Terry, your posts are excellent), is that if the contacts of the jack plug become damaged, dirty or whatever, they can cause the battery connection to become intermittent - even with an expensive 470uF filter cap fitted. Many pedal makers now opt for the system I outlined above to prevent this happening and removes the 470uF cap cost too... me included.

tdowns · July 6th, 2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart Ward

Well, many pedals employ an input jack socket that has a separate switch to connect the battery to the pedal's ground circuit when the jack plug is inserted.

Do you have an example of a pedal or jack that does that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart Ward

The down side of using the method described by Terry (no disrespect Terry, your posts are excellent), ......

Not a problem. I didn't design the pedals, just reporting the facts.

Nick JD · July 6th, 2008, 06:07 PM

What about getting a volume pot with a "click" on "0" (maybe a lefty no-load pot?) that kills the 9V battery? Most people I know turn the volume down when they stop playing...

And maybe a little LED somewhere, just in case you forget.

telecaster1987 · July 6th, 2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick JD

What about getting a volume pot with a "click" on "0" (maybe a lefty no-load pot?) that kills the 9V battery? Most people I know turn the volume down when they stop playing...

And maybe a little LED somewhere, just in case you forget.

Here you're talking about a pot with a switch attached to the back of it similar to a transistor radio. You can actually buy one that replaces the plain metal back of a pot and is actuated by the wiper of the pot. One minor problem about these is they increase the mounting depth required for the pot.

Also, most LEDs need about 10-20 milliamps to work, so they will reduce the battery life somewhat when ON.

BTW, the mercury switch is an interesting idea, but if it gets broken you have to call a HazMat team to clean it up. (I wish I was kidding!)

telecaster1987 · July 6th, 2008, 08:51 PM

Terry,

As you're no doubt aware, there are bunches of 1/4" jacks with isolated and non-isolated switch contacts built in:
http://www.switchcraft.com/products/..._schematic.pdf
http://www.switchcraft.com/products/..._schematic.pdf

Although I have seen a few Craig Anderton and electronics magazine designs using them, I am not aware of any commercial pedals that use them. I personally have one from Radio Shack that has two Normally Open isolated contacts. Seem to be very useful for power switching and other uses.

tdowns · July 6th, 2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telecaster1987

Terry,

As you're no doubt aware, there are bunches of 1/4" jacks with isolated and non-isolated switch contacts built in:

Absolutely. Switchcraft has had those offering for decades. Their cost would blow it for pedal manufacturers, or at least the ones I'm familiar with.

Nick JD · July 7th, 2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telecaster1987

BTW, the mercury switch is an interesting idea, but if it gets broken you have to call a HazMat team to clean it up. (I wish I was kidding!)

I was thinking about calling some bomb disposal guys - to see if they had any mercury switches lying around...

The switch could also be used as an effect like a "kill-switch" button ... just lean back and get all vertical and shakin' and it'd cut in and out.

Like this:

Stewart Ward · July 7th, 2008, 02:14 AM

Hi Terry,

The jacks I refer to are made by Neutrik (formerly Re-an). I've been using these since 1994 and have proved very reliable in our JD10, AP10, SoloBooster and ABY pedals.

Here's a photo. The ground contact lifts when you insert the jack plug and 'makes' contact, thus connecting a battery to the circuit. It can be used for other switching too. Dead simple and quite cheap... but is made to order only in a 1000 off lot minimum.

tjalla · July 7th, 2008, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick JD

That deadly poisonous thing reminds me of another... a Portuguese man-o-war!

July 5th, 2008, 11:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
tjalla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,682 7 Photos	Planet waves circuit-breaker cables - are they battery savers too? The PW plugs with the on/off switch to prevent popping when unplugging your guitar - I was wondering if they also prevent battery drainage from pedals or guitars with active pickup systems ie can I just press the button during set breaks on my acoustic (active preamp) Does anyone know, or understand what's going on electrically inside the plug? Trev

July 5th, 2008, 01:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lance Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,155	Short answer : NO __________________ Lance "not very good...but I make up for it by playing loud"

July 5th, 2008, 02:50 PM	#5 (permalink)
Rick J Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: North London, UK Posts: 442	The long answer.... is that the business bit of the PW cable is at the guitar end, and is a simple make/break switch, which just shorts out the cable when engaged. What goes on at the pedal end or the guitar end is detected by the pedal or preamp by the actual presence of the plug shaft into the jacksocket either in the pedal or the guitar, the action of insertion being the make/break in this case. Its not in any way dependent on the conductivity of the cable, just the metal tube being in the socket. So - no battery savings! Rick J __________________ "If you want to know what an electric guitar is supposed to sound like, just listen to this." - British DJ John Peel introducing a Roy Buchanan track on BBC radio in the late 60's.

July 5th, 2008, 02:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lance Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 2,155	Sorry for the delay..... What he said! ;) It's actually pretty simple. When you insert the plug into the jack on the pedal, it closes the contacts in the pedal to turn the power on. Get a screwdriver and pop the back off a pedal of yours and you'll go...."OH - that's how it works!" It's pretty obvious when you put your eyeballs on it. __________________ Lance "not very good...but I make up for it by playing loud"

July 5th, 2008, 07:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
tdowns Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wylie, TX US Posts: 2,537	The input jack to most all pedals is a 1/4" STEREO phone jack, designed for headphone use that has a tip, ring, and sleeve. See the illustration below (linked from Wikipedia). 1. Sleeve: usually ground 2. Ring: Right-hand channel for stereo signals, negative phase for balanced mono signals, power supply for power-requiring mono signal sources 3. Tip: Left-hand channel for stereo signals, positive phase for balanced mono signals, signal line for unbalanced mono signals 4. Insulating rings The negative terminal of the battery of the pedal is connected to the jack connection for the Ring. When a regular MONO plug (only has a tip and sleeve like your guitar cord) is inserted, the sleeve grounds the jack terminal that is intended for a Ring and the battery is connected. If you used a STEREO plug going to a pedal that had the ring disconnected, the pedal would not power up. The PW cable is just a switch that shorts out the signal to ground. It will have no effect on battery drain. Nice though tho.... __________________ Best regards, Terry Downs http://terrydownsmusic.com Equine quadrupeds may be coaxed to the reference of specific gravity but may not be compelled to imbibe thereof.

July 5th, 2008, 01:01 PM	#2 (permalink)
dobrodoc Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ware Shoals, S.C. Age: 53 Posts: 341	Don't know about the plug, but if it's left plugged in a pedal, the battery WILL be drained. The jack in the pedal makes when the plug is inserted, turning the pedal on.

July 5th, 2008, 02:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
tjalla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,682 7 Photos	Cool. Thanks Rick... I was hoping the PW would break conductivity, but looks like I have to unplug. Oh the hassle!

July 5th, 2008, 03:05 PM	#8 (permalink)
tjalla Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 1,682 7 Photos	I think I get it, its a physical connection dependent on the actual barrel of the jack, not the connection to the wires. Thanks guys!

July 5th, 2008, 07:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
Nick JD Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2007 Location: North NSW, Australia Age: 36 Posts: 2,171	What about a mercury switch that completed the preamp battery circuit when the guitar was held horizontally. On the stand it turned itself off. __________________

July 6th, 2008, 06:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Nick JD Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2007 Location: North NSW, Australia Age: 36 Posts: 2,171	What about getting a volume pot with a "click" on "0" (maybe a lefty no-load pot?) that kills the 9V battery? Most people I know turn the volume down when they stop playing... And maybe a little LED somewhere, just in case you forget. __________________

July 6th, 2008, 08:51 PM	#16 (permalink)
telecaster1987 Tele-Meister Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 154	Terry, As you're no doubt aware, there are bunches of 1/4" jacks with isolated and non-isolated switch contacts built in: http://www.switchcraft.com/products/..._schematic.pdf http://www.switchcraft.com/products/..._schematic.pdf Although I have seen a few Craig Anderton and electronics magazine designs using them, I am not aware of any commercial pedals that use them. I personally have one from Radio Shack that has two Normally Open isolated contacts. Seem to be very useful for power switching and other uses. __________________ Sure, I work on electronics...It doesn't bother me... bother me... bother me... "We've got a blind date with Destiny... and it looks like she's ordered the lobster!" - The Shoveler Mystery Men Movie