How much darker w/ tung oil

siracusa · July 4th, 2008, 03:06 PM

Hi all,
As a new member round here I'm amazed at all the knowledge that's being imparted on TDPRI, so I've spent some time reading and soaking it all up before I actually post...
Anyway, here I am with my first question - I'm doing my first tele build, based around a 1 piece northern ash body. I decided on an oil finish, and I was wondering with Tung oil, how much darker will it appear once the tung finish is cured?
The wood's very white, so I want to add a little warmth. Would teak oil be a better bet than tung oil for this?
Thanks in advance for your help!

bluesjuke · July 4th, 2008, 07:40 PM

Welcome to the TDPRI siracusa!

Can't answer that but you may want to take a look at this thread;

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...n-beeswax.html

robt57 · July 4th, 2008, 07:55 PM

In the thread here at the link below I have 2 pics posted of tung oil on ash of my guitar. 4+ years between the pics. You can get an idea on the patina. The oil did not color it darker, but I used oak oil to get the amber patina going. Hope that helps.

TDPRI Thread

siracusa · July 4th, 2008, 08:31 PM

Thanks for the headsups guys, these actually give me extra options to think about. The oil has patinated nicely, and as for that beeswaxed tele...it's got a nice amber glow to it.
I think I'll try the antique pine beeswax on the ash body, and if it doesn't take well to the ash, strip it and oil it.
The beeswax is making me rethink the project, though - I was gonna use a warmoth neck w/ rosewood fretboard, but I also have a squier custom 2 neck w/ maple fretboard that came with it. Having seen the colour of that beeswax pinecaster, I'm tempted to go blackguard and use the squier neck even though it's not as nice. I guess I could then sell the warmoth & put the proceeds towards my hot rod deville savings fund...
Thanks again guys, I'll be sure to post pics of the completed project when its done.

woodman · July 4th, 2008, 08:33 PM

are you using raw tung oil, or a tung oil varnish such as Formby's? that's important to distinguish -- if you're using raw tung oil and want to work it down to a fine finish, prepare to hunker down in the trenches for a while. the varnish is great stuff and easy to work with.

i once used a sanding sealer on an ash body and finished it out with tung oil varnish ... didn't darken it hardly a bit. another time i started out with the tung oil varnish on the first coat and built up, and that darkened it a shade. YMMV!

siracusa · July 4th, 2008, 08:43 PM

Hi woodman, thanks for the info on the differences. I had been thinking of a blended preparation that's sold for use on furniture; it seems to be similar to the Formby's that you mention (though we don't have Formbys in England).
If the tung oil blends don't seem to darken wood as much, would it be possible to apply a wax finish and then when that's cured, give it a protecting tung oil coat - or would the tung just strip the wax and leave me with a cloudy, gunky mess?

woodman · July 4th, 2008, 08:55 PM

yeah, the stuff you're talking about is the right stuff. as for wax first, i think you're asking for trouble. if you got a deep tung finish, you could then wax it to polish it up. however, my experience is limited -- some of the more finish-savvy folks around here can probably help get you where you want to go regarding the particulars.

Del Pickup · July 4th, 2008, 09:03 PM

I stripped my tele down to the wood earlier this year, then applied a couple of coats of wood stain (from memory it was rimu - similar tone but slightly darker than aged pine) and finished with a couple of coats of Danish oil.

There's a photo in my gallery page.

boris bubbanov · July 5th, 2008, 12:10 AM

I used about a dozen coats of Minwax "tung oil" polymerized blend finish, similar to Formbys and probably similar to your choice of finish.

I applied it to a one piece USACG american walnut body, and it darkened the wood dramatically at first.

Since that time, it has been getting lighter and lighter in color. Very nice, with just a bit of the walnut pores coming through ( I sealed it pretty well).

If you are gonna use this product on ash, you might want to think about a few applications of grain filler. Practice on samples is what I would do. Ash has many more pores than walnut, and more grain filling is the norm.

robt57 · July 5th, 2008, 12:47 AM

The Watco I used IS varnish based FWIW ;)

siracusa · July 5th, 2008, 06:12 PM

Thanks for this, and Del - kia ora, from a UK based Kiwi (though was so young, can't really remember a thing, still it's what ma keeps telling me is 'home')...
Anyway, decisions, decisions...after the wealth of advice (thanks all) what I'm doing is a nice fun experiment!
Okay, experiment 1 : I got a partscaster in a trade in a grubby red finsh. I decided what the hell - refin beckons, so I spent today stripping it and I will apply the colron antique pine beeswax to this to test out that finish.
Experiment 2 : my nice new ash body is gonna be dyed then oil finished, so I can test out this finish.
COnsidering experiment 2 is also my first ever build I may have bitten off a lot here - but I will upload the progress pics comparing the two finishes...
Here goes!!!

Del Pickup · July 5th, 2008, 09:46 PM

Siracusa,
Kia ora to you too, bro' as they say here!! I'm actually from Scotland but have been here 13 years now so almost a naturalised kiwi! Sounds like you're almost a naturalised pommie! I think I got the better deal there.....

Be good to see your progress reports.

old_picker · July 5th, 2008, 10:46 PM

i have had great success with danish oil
its a generic term for a 3 way blend of oil varnish and turpentine
the theory is the oil colours up the wood and stops the entry of moisture, the turps sucks the mixture deep into the wood and the varnish makes the mix set hard

so you have a surface treatment that is integrated into the wood and doesnt actually sit on the surface as a seperated layer - it give a beautifull soft sheen and is is very nice to the touch - it dont chip crack or flake and is easily touched up or refinshed at any time

3 coats wiped on with a rag at an interval of 24 hours and a week in a warm room to lose the volatiles make it the easiest and quickest of all finishes
if you want more shine an application of carnuaba wax will help

the oil can be tung or boiled linseed or a mix of both and the varnish often is polyurethane.

your main effort will be surface prep dry sanding to at least 1500
no sealer or grain fill is used unless it is a permeable filler like timbermate

the tung oil purists will shudder when danish oil is mentioned
tung oil makes beautiful finish no doubt but is a lot of work to get it right

siracusa · July 6th, 2008, 04:48 PM

Thanks all for your advice so far. Emboldened by the encouragement you've all shared with me through your own knowledge and experience, I've now completed part one of my experiment - the partscaster I got in a trade has now been stripped and it has now received four coats of Colron Antique Pine coloured beeswax, followed by two coats of carnauba wax. I wouldn't say I've done the world's most brilliant job, but as my first refin effort I'm happy & it's sure been a learning experience! I now know first hand to ensure surface prep is spot on, or any flaw will show when it's finished.

Anyway, it's on to part two - finishing my new ash body and completing my first build. Based on the advice received here, I'm going to dye the wood first, then oil finish it, using Ray's suggestion of Danish oil.

For your information, here's a photo of part one - the waxed partscaster...2 piece body, looks like alder and actually it's a warmoth, not the nicest grain but feels nice quality.

July 4th, 2008, 03:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
siracusa NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 7	How much darker w/ tung oil Hi all, As a new member round here I'm amazed at all the knowledge that's being imparted on TDPRI, so I've spent some time reading and soaking it all up before I actually post... Anyway, here I am with my first question - I'm doing my first tele build, based around a 1 piece northern ash body. I decided on an oil finish, and I was wondering with Tung oil, how much darker will it appear once the tung finish is cured? The wood's very white, so I want to add a little warmth. Would teak oil be a better bet than tung oil for this? Thanks in advance for your help!

July 4th, 2008, 07:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
robt57 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lost Yankee in Nashville Age: 51 Posts: 3,708 21 Photos	In the thread here at the link below I have 2 pics posted of tung oil on ash of my guitar. 4+ years between the pics. You can get an idea on the patina. The oil did not color it darker, but I used oak oil to get the amber patina going. Hope that helps. TDPRI Thread __________________ Leo's Great, Leo's Good, let us thank him for our... Twang!

July 4th, 2008, 08:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 5,964	are you using raw tung oil, or a tung oil varnish such as Formby's? that's important to distinguish -- if you're using raw tung oil and want to work it down to a fine finish, prepare to hunker down in the trenches for a while. the varnish is great stuff and easy to work with. i once used a sanding sealer on an ash body and finished it out with tung oil varnish ... didn't darken it hardly a bit. another time i started out with the tung oil varnish on the first coat and built up, and that darkened it a shade. YMMV! __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

July 4th, 2008, 08:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
woodman Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 5,964	yeah, the stuff you're talking about is the right stuff. as for wax first, i think you're asking for trouble. if you got a deep tung finish, you could then wax it to polish it up. however, my experience is limited -- some of the more finish-savvy folks around here can probably help get you where you want to go regarding the particulars. __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

July 4th, 2008, 09:03 PM	#8 (permalink)
Del Pickup Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 621 5 Photos	I stripped my tele down to the wood earlier this year, then applied a couple of coats of wood stain (from memory it was rimu - similar tone but slightly darker than aged pine) and finished with a couple of coats of Danish oil. There's a photo in my gallery page. __________________ Someone told me that my tone is in my underpants. I'm not sure if that's good or bad......

July 4th, 2008, 07:40 PM	#2 (permalink)
bluesjuke Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Bluesland, Texas Age: 52 Posts: 550	Welcome to the TDPRI siracusa! Can't answer that but you may want to take a look at this thread; http://www.tdpri.com/forum/telecaste...n-beeswax.html

July 4th, 2008, 08:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
siracusa NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 7	Thanks for the headsups guys, these actually give me extra options to think about. The oil has patinated nicely, and as for that beeswaxed tele...it's got a nice amber glow to it. I think I'll try the antique pine beeswax on the ash body, and if it doesn't take well to the ash, strip it and oil it. The beeswax is making me rethink the project, though - I was gonna use a warmoth neck w/ rosewood fretboard, but I also have a squier custom 2 neck w/ maple fretboard that came with it. Having seen the colour of that beeswax pinecaster, I'm tempted to go blackguard and use the squier neck even though it's not as nice. I guess I could then sell the warmoth & put the proceeds towards my hot rod deville savings fund... Thanks again guys, I'll be sure to post pics of the completed project when its done.

July 4th, 2008, 08:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
siracusa NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 7	Hi woodman, thanks for the info on the differences. I had been thinking of a blended preparation that's sold for use on furniture; it seems to be similar to the Formby's that you mention (though we don't have Formbys in England). If the tung oil blends don't seem to darken wood as much, would it be possible to apply a wax finish and then when that's cured, give it a protecting tung oil coat - or would the tung just strip the wax and leave me with a cloudy, gunky mess?

July 5th, 2008, 12:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 8,531	I used about a dozen coats of Minwax "tung oil" polymerized blend finish, similar to Formbys and probably similar to your choice of finish. I applied it to a one piece USACG american walnut body, and it darkened the wood dramatically at first. Since that time, it has been getting lighter and lighter in color. Very nice, with just a bit of the walnut pores coming through ( I sealed it pretty well). If you are gonna use this product on ash, you might want to think about a few applications of grain filler. Practice on samples is what I would do. Ash has many more pores than walnut, and more grain filling is the norm. __________________ Bubban0v

July 5th, 2008, 12:47 AM	#10 (permalink)
robt57 Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Lost Yankee in Nashville Age: 51 Posts: 3,708 21 Photos	The Watco I used IS varnish based FWIW ;) __________________ Leo's Great, Leo's Good, let us thank him for our... Twang!

July 5th, 2008, 06:12 PM	#11 (permalink)
siracusa NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 7	Thanks for this, and Del - kia ora, from a UK based Kiwi (though was so young, can't really remember a thing, still it's what ma keeps telling me is 'home')... Anyway, decisions, decisions...after the wealth of advice (thanks all) what I'm doing is a nice fun experiment! Okay, experiment 1 : I got a partscaster in a trade in a grubby red finsh. I decided what the hell - refin beckons, so I spent today stripping it and I will apply the colron antique pine beeswax to this to test out that finish. Experiment 2 : my nice new ash body is gonna be dyed then oil finished, so I can test out this finish. COnsidering experiment 2 is also my first ever build I may have bitten off a lot here - but I will upload the progress pics comparing the two finishes... Here goes!!!

July 5th, 2008, 09:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Del Pickup Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 621 5 Photos	Siracusa, Kia ora to you too, bro' as they say here!! I'm actually from Scotland but have been here 13 years now so almost a naturalised kiwi! Sounds like you're almost a naturalised pommie! I think I got the better deal there..... Be good to see your progress reports. __________________ Someone told me that my tone is in my underpants. I'm not sure if that's good or bad......

July 5th, 2008, 10:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
old_picker Tele-Meister Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 450	i have had great success with danish oil its a generic term for a 3 way blend of oil varnish and turpentine the theory is the oil colours up the wood and stops the entry of moisture, the turps sucks the mixture deep into the wood and the varnish makes the mix set hard so you have a surface treatment that is integrated into the wood and doesnt actually sit on the surface as a seperated layer - it give a beautifull soft sheen and is is very nice to the touch - it dont chip crack or flake and is easily touched up or refinshed at any time 3 coats wiped on with a rag at an interval of 24 hours and a week in a warm room to lose the volatiles make it the easiest and quickest of all finishes if you want more shine an application of carnuaba wax will help the oil can be tung or boiled linseed or a mix of both and the varnish often is polyurethane. your main effort will be surface prep dry sanding to at least 1500 no sealer or grain fill is used unless it is a permeable filler like timbermate the tung oil purists will shudder when danish oil is mentioned tung oil makes beautiful finish no doubt but is a lot of work to get it right __________________ ray

July 6th, 2008, 04:48 PM	#14 (permalink)
siracusa NEW MEMBER! Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: London Posts: 7	Thanks all for your advice so far. Emboldened by the encouragement you've all shared with me through your own knowledge and experience, I've now completed part one of my experiment - the partscaster I got in a trade has now been stripped and it has now received four coats of Colron Antique Pine coloured beeswax, followed by two coats of carnauba wax. I wouldn't say I've done the world's most brilliant job, but as my first refin effort I'm happy & it's sure been a learning experience! I now know first hand to ensure surface prep is spot on, or any flaw will show when it's finished. Anyway, it's on to part two - finishing my new ash body and completing my first build. Based on the advice received here, I'm going to dye the wood first, then oil finish it, using Ray's suggestion of Danish oil. For your information, here's a photo of part one - the waxed partscaster...2 piece body, looks like alder and actually it's a warmoth, not the nicest grain but feels nice quality.