Vintage Tele Options

opdev1 · July 3rd, 2008, 10:07 PM

If you were buying a vintage tele, what do you think is more desirable?

1) Blackguard Refin (98% original otherwise)
2) Mid 50's (54-55) Whiteguard, all original, no refin, play wear.

Same price

Looking for vintage opinions only (I can have a vice). Not interested in the 10x better tele you can get for 1/10 the cost.

I was totally sold on a BG refin but now the "all original" whiteguard had peaked my interest.

Are 54-55's very different tone wise?

I do see that the 55 uses steel saddles which I assume may brighten things up a bit? The slight V necks on the 55's seem cool as well.

A Blackguard is the vintage grail though....

freewater2000 · July 3rd, 2008, 10:30 PM

Try a Callaham black guard then you have an awesome 2in1...Wish I had your delima...

opdev1 · July 3rd, 2008, 10:43 PM

24 month wait???? I can be dead by then. You only live once ;)

64Strat · July 3rd, 2008, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opdev1

If you were buying a vintage tele, what do you think is more desirable?

1) Blackguard Refin (98% original otherwise)
2) Mid 50's (54-55) Whiteguard, all original, no refin, play wear.

Same price

Looking for vintage opinions only (I can have a vice). Not interested in the 10x better tele you can get for 1/10 the cost.

I was totally sold on a BG refin but now the "all original" whiteguard had peaked my interest.

Are 54-55's very different tone wise?

I do see that the 55 uses steel saddles which I assume may brighten things up a bit? The slight V necks on the 55's seem cool as well.

A Blackguard is the vintage grail though....

personally, I would go with the originality always, so an original WG instead of a refin BG.

My '56 is a great Tele, the main difference from a BG is, the bridge pup is not a flat pole and the saddles are steel vs. brass. I can't confirm the brightness you question about the steel saddles. Personally, I really like the V necks on my '56 & '57. My '57 is just as good a Tele as the '56 but my '58 string thru body is a little different, still very, very good but the saddles are threaded and I think these degrade the tone ever so slightly. Try to get the OHSC as those are hard to find and very pricey if bought separately. All 3 of these WG's weigh between 5 lbs 15ozs and 6 lbs 4 ozs and are very acoustically loud with a lot of vibration.

Good luck with your search and do your research and due diligence.... and deal with someone that is well known or connected to known expert sources.

all the best!

opdev1 · July 3rd, 2008, 10:52 PM

Thanks 64...

Yes, it's a tough choice.

Both the BG and the WG come with original case although the BG's is pretty beat.

The problem with the WG (1954) is the weight. Just under 8 lbs. It does have a flat pole pup though.

My first try at this was a refin broadcaster. Great guitar but enough "issues" that I felt I was WAY overpaying. However, it was 6.5 lbs and ULTRA resonant. So now I feel like I need a light tele.

These 2 are better priced for what they are. Hell, for the BG, I can sell the case for 5K and then get a hell of a decent deal.

I am dealing with 2 pretty reputable dealers. One of them is pretty well known for teles.

opdev1 · July 3rd, 2008, 10:57 PM

Boy, your pix give me some serious white guard GAS.

64Strat · July 3rd, 2008, 11:15 PM

take your time, there is a fair amount of inventory on the market right now because of people are either in financial trouble or they are private individuals doing the Chicken Little thing, it's a good time to buy, imho. Also, dealers that do this to make a living are going to have to lower prices to get the cash flow going again, so there may be some deals there too. Just be cautious and do your due diligence but once you find the right one and get it into your stable, you'll love this type of investment that you can enjoy every day and in the long run, it continues to appreciate in value. The thing to do, is to buy quality. Sometimes you can get lucky and you trip into a great deal but my experience is, those don't happen when you are looking for them.... they happen when you aren't looking!

When you look at a vintage guitar that is supposed to be all original, EVERYTHING about it has to add up. and don't be afraid to have them taken all apart and look at every detail. it's your money!

keep me posted and if I can help in some little way, just let me know.

Hafner · July 4th, 2008, 03:22 AM

We are talking about circa 30T-40T$ here ?
You MUST play them, the guitar itself will tell you the right choice.

opdev1 · July 4th, 2008, 09:29 AM

I do play them (well the one I tried).

You get a 48-72 hr approval period to keep or return the guitar. Shipping gets expensive with insurance.

There are actually sub 20K guitars. That's really alot of money but they were alot more than that a year ago.

surfoverb · July 4th, 2008, 10:12 AM

buy them both; its not like you won't be able to sell one again...What's wrong with 8 lbs? I'll take an 8lbs over 6.5lbs and I prefer lighter guitars. I think 7.5lbs is perfect.
My 52RI is 8lbs and its not hefty by any means...and it's more resonant than my 7lbs Esquire.

opdev1 · July 4th, 2008, 10:23 AM

LOL,

IF, I had enough for BOTH, I'd buy a non refin blackuard tele or Esquire and be done with it.

surfoverb · July 4th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opdev1

LOL,

IF, I had enough for BOTH, I'd buy a non refin blackuard tele or Esquire and be done with it.

There ya go, doesn't that answer your question? Buy the non refin...Thats what I would do.

opdev1 · July 4th, 2008, 11:03 AM

Not quite, the lofty goal is a non refin blackguard.

The actual finances dictate all original WG or refin BG so it's still a toss up.

I will be trying a few in the upcoming weeks.

opdev1 · July 8th, 2008, 12:22 PM

I am pretty amazed that refin BG's are down around 17K. Still a ton of $$ but different than a year or two ago.

newtwanger · July 8th, 2008, 12:59 PM

A refin will always be a refin. If it is a date documented refin from a known and respected refinisher that's one thing, if it's a "refinished at some point be somebody" I would pass.

Good luck!

opdev1 · July 8th, 2008, 01:44 PM

Luckily, it's a known refin date and a very respected refin guy that even has some "celebrity" recognition.

July 3rd, 2008, 10:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	Vintage Tele Options If you were buying a vintage tele, what do you think is more desirable? 1) Blackguard Refin (98% original otherwise) 2) Mid 50's (54-55) Whiteguard, all original, no refin, play wear. Same price Looking for vintage opinions only (I can have a vice). Not interested in the 10x better tele you can get for 1/10 the cost. I was totally sold on a BG refin but now the "all original" whiteguard had peaked my interest. Are 54-55's very different tone wise? I do see that the 55 uses steel saddles which I assume may brighten things up a bit? The slight V necks on the 55's seem cool as well. A Blackguard is the vintage grail though....

July 4th, 2008, 03:22 AM	#8 (permalink)
Hafner RIP Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Switzerland Age: 60 Posts: 1,561 18 Photos	We are talking about circa 30T-40T$ here ? You MUST play them, the guitar itself will tell you the right choice. __________________ Manfred

July 4th, 2008, 10:12 AM	#10 (permalink)
surfoverb Friend of Leo's Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 2,837	buy them both; its not like you won't be able to sell one again...What's wrong with 8 lbs? I'll take an 8lbs over 6.5lbs and I prefer lighter guitars. I think 7.5lbs is perfect. My 52RI is 8lbs and its not hefty by any means...and it's more resonant than my 7lbs Esquire. __________________ "You released the ****** fury!"*

July 8th, 2008, 12:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
newtwanger Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 1,231 11 Photos	A refin will always be a refin. If it is a date documented refin from a known and respected refinisher that's one thing, if it's a "refinished at some point be somebody" I would pass. Good luck! __________________ _________________

July 3rd, 2008, 10:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
freewater2000 TDPRI Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hueytown Alabama Posts: 70	Try a Callaham black guard then you have an awesome 2in1...Wish I had your delima...

July 3rd, 2008, 10:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	24 month wait???? I can be dead by then. You only live once ;)

July 3rd, 2008, 10:52 PM	#5 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	Thanks 64... Yes, it's a tough choice. Both the BG and the WG come with original case although the BG's is pretty beat. The problem with the WG (1954) is the weight. Just under 8 lbs. It does have a flat pole pup though. My first try at this was a refin broadcaster. Great guitar but enough "issues" that I felt I was WAY overpaying. However, it was 6.5 lbs and ULTRA resonant. So now I feel like I need a light tele. These 2 are better priced for what they are. Hell, for the BG, I can sell the case for 5K and then get a hell of a decent deal. I am dealing with 2 pretty reputable dealers. One of them is pretty well known for teles.

July 3rd, 2008, 10:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	Boy, your pix give me some serious white guard GAS.

July 3rd, 2008, 11:15 PM	#7 (permalink)
64Strat Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 725 43 Photos	take your time, there is a fair amount of inventory on the market right now because of people are either in financial trouble or they are private individuals doing the Chicken Little thing, it's a good time to buy, imho. Also, dealers that do this to make a living are going to have to lower prices to get the cash flow going again, so there may be some deals there too. Just be cautious and do your due diligence but once you find the right one and get it into your stable, you'll love this type of investment that you can enjoy every day and in the long run, it continues to appreciate in value. The thing to do, is to buy quality. Sometimes you can get lucky and you trip into a great deal but my experience is, those don't happen when you are looking for them.... they happen when you aren't looking! When you look at a vintage guitar that is supposed to be all original, EVERYTHING about it has to add up. and don't be afraid to have them taken all apart and look at every detail. it's your money! keep me posted and if I can help in some little way, just let me know.

July 4th, 2008, 09:29 AM	#9 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	I do play them (well the one I tried). You get a 48-72 hr approval period to keep or return the guitar. Shipping gets expensive with insurance. There are actually sub 20K guitars. That's really alot of money but they were alot more than that a year ago.

July 4th, 2008, 10:23 AM	#11 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	LOL, IF, I had enough for BOTH, I'd buy a non refin blackuard tele or Esquire and be done with it.

July 4th, 2008, 11:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	Not quite, the lofty goal is a non refin blackguard. The actual finances dictate all original WG or refin BG so it's still a toss up. I will be trying a few in the upcoming weeks.

July 8th, 2008, 12:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	I am pretty amazed that refin BG's are down around 17K. Still a ton of $$ but different than a year or two ago.

July 8th, 2008, 01:44 PM	#16 (permalink)
opdev1 Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston Age: 42 Posts: 294	Luckily, it's a known refin date and a very respected refin guy that even has some "celebrity" recognition.