Paisley USA Custom Shop Masterbuilt Telecaster!

[surfoverb]

How rare are these originals? How much does a late 60s Tele cost? More than 6 grand?

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by miketoe

The asking price that I most often encounter right now is $18,000.00.

That's a lot of money for a guitar that looks like my pajamas!

[e-merlin]

Originally Posted by Nick JD

That's a lot of money for a guitar that looks like my pajamas!

Who wears pajamas?

[TDPRI]

I like everyone else have wondered why the MIJ Paisley is so "wrong" compared to the 60's real things. How could the usually careful Fender Japan get that background and pink/red so wrong?

Now, I think I'm getting the picture that maybe they didn't get it wrong with the paisley paper and the pink/red maybe it was the nitro finish? Maybe Fender Japan got everything right but used Poly?

AND, the nitro yellowed FAST, and hastened the fading of the paisley material too?

So that's why the MIJ looks "wrong" and the Crook looks right. Since Bill is recreating the look of an already aged Paisley pattern. He's not trying to make it look like the real thing did in 1968, he's making it look like the real thing does in 1999 (approx when he started).

And, Fender Japan, true to their roots is trying to be very accurate and in doing so is using the correct method of making the wallpaper, they're just using the wrong finishing material.

What do you think?

[FredDairy]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

I like everyone else have wondered why the MIJ Paisley is so "wrong" compared to the 60's real things. How could the usually careful Fender Japan get that background and pink/red so wrong?

Now, I think I'm getting the picture that maybe they didn't get it wrong with the paisley paper and the pink/red maybe it was the nitro finish? Maybe Fender Japan got everything right but used Poly?

AND, the nitro yellowed FAST, and hastened the fading of the paisley material too?

So that's why the MIJ looks "wrong" and the Crook looks right. Since Bill is recreating the look of an already aged Paisley pattern. He's not trying to make it look like the real thing did in 1968, he's making it look like the real thing does in 1999 (approx when he started).

And, Fender Japan, true to their roots is trying to be very accurate and in doing so is using the correct method of making the wallpaper, they're just using the wrong finishing material.

What do you think?

I agree. I've always felt that the CIJ looks just like an old paisley would have when it first came out of the Fender factory in '68.

I still want to know what anyone thinks about putting a coat of nitro ontop of the CIJ paisley. Wouldn't that nitro yellow in time hence making the under finish look darker?

I really could careless if my CIJ paisley is too pink, like I said earlier to the average joe in the crowd you're the guitarist with the pink guitar no matter if it's a Crook or a CIJ. The thing I find most inaccurate about the CIJs is the solid color burst/fade into the paisley pattern around the edges. Those originals didn't have as much solid paint around the edges as the imports do. On the Crooks I've seen he doesn't use as much solid paint around the edges and that makes a huge difference in looks as far as I'm concerned.

[jwells393]

That makes a lot of sense Paul.

I still want to know what anyone thinks about putting a coat of nitro ontop of the CIJ paisley.

If you really want to give it a yellow tint, the ReRanch Tinted Clear would do it instantly.

[Buckocaster51]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

What do you think?

Yup.

Edit...

This morning I had a long phone conversation with somebody that has handled several paisleys over the past several decades.

From his experiences, he has convinced me that the clearcoat on the old ones is not lacquer. It resists chemicals, sands like a poly, smells like a poly when sanded, and cracks and peels like a poly as opposed to checking and flaking like a lacquer.

Fender Japan's "problem" might be that they are using modern goop as opposed to the goop that was available in California in the 60s.

There has to be somebody, some old retired Fender worker, living peacefully in southern CA that actually worked on these that could shed some more light on how they were done.

If you know what I mean.

[UhillTele]

Well Sorry to say, but I know a luthier in Cincinnati - Dave Schneider of Scheider guitars who refin'd one and said it was lacquer with urethan seal - there are several different approaches to finishing one, and no are "IN-correct"...however the difference is the backing material and that's why, Crooks, Fender USA, and Fender Japan are incorrect. Color will fade with any finish over enough time - every chemical on this Earth has a half life....Just go for what you like best - who's ever it is.

[TDPRI]

Ok guys, I got it from the horse's mouth... so to speak. Today at Summer NAMM.

Mike Eldred, head of the Custom Shop told me that the originals were nitro and it yellowed quickly. He said the paper is one piece not two, and it is definitely silver metallic in the background.

He said this is why:

1. The MIJ's don't look right, because the poly doesn't darken.
2. People like Crook are in essence "getting it wrong" because they are recreating the way the originals look NOW, but not like they looked new.

He said they have "quite a bit" of paper left and will be happy to make as many Masterbuilts as people want, but that demand has not been real strong.

He also said, there isn't anything really all that special about the paper that they could have it recreated and made again. He said that if Fender Japan could finish their Paisley's in Nitro that they too would age and look correct because they are using the correct paper and colors.

[FredDairy]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

Ok guys, I got it from the horse's mouth... so to speak. Today at Summer NAMM.

Mike Eldred, head of the Custom Shop told me that the originals were nitro and it yellowed quickly. He said the paper is one piece not two, and it is definitely silver metallic in the background.

He said this is why:

1. The MIJ's don't look right, because the poly doesn't darken.
2. People like Crook are in essence "getting it wrong" because they are recreating the way the originals look NOW, but not like they looked new.

He said they have "quite a bit" of paper left and will be happy to make as many Masterbuilts as people want, but that demand has not been real strong.

He also said, there isn't anything really all that special about the paper that they could have it recreated and made again. He said that if Fender Japan could finish their Paisley's in Nitro that they too would age and look correct because they are using the correct paper and colors.

Awesome! The best post I've read on the TDPRI! Great information! Makes me feel real good about my CIJ.

[kylef]

great post mate. brings a bit of relief knowing there is more paper, and that the CIJ are actually the right colours. just wish they were period correct and finished in nitro!

so does the MIJ and the CIJ use the same paper and colours?

[tonytrout]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

Ok guys, I got it from the horse's mouth... so to speak. Today at Summer NAMM.

Mike Eldred, head of the Custom Shop told me that the originals were nitro and it yellowed quickly. He said the paper is one piece not two, and it is definitely silver metallic in the background.

He said this is why:

1. The MIJ's don't look right, because the poly doesn't darken.
2. People like Crook are in essence "getting it wrong" because they are recreating the way the originals look NOW, but not like they looked new.

He said they have "quite a bit" of paper left and will be happy to make as many Masterbuilts as people want, but that demand has not been real strong.

He also said, there isn't anything really all that special about the paper that they could have it recreated and made again. He said that if Fender Japan could finish their Paisley's in Nitro that they too would age and look correct because they are using the correct paper and colors.

Great post, Paul!! Thank you for this very informative reading!

[jwells393]

On an unrelated matter, the CIJ Blue Flower pattern is printed on a textured foil backing. The foil backing has a different pattern than the CIJ Paisley.

[e-merlin]

Is the Masterbuilt done in Nitro?

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by miketoe

But it only takes a glance at TerryOz's own photo of his '68 original to see that the material is made of two layers: a printed plastic film over an embossed foil. If the Custom Shop claims that the material is "one piece," then that must mean that the two layers are already glued together, which seems reasonable and likely.

My only answer is that the head of the Custom Shop, a guy that has held the material in his hands says it is one piece.

If you have some other first hand account... and not some photo that none of us knows the true authenticity of... then let's hear about it. I'm all ears.

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by e-merlin

Is the Masterbuilt done in Nitro?

Yes, the Masterbuilt is done in Nitro... and from the looks of the photos I could guess that it's a tinted nitro. But I have no knowledge of that.

[kinkstah]

Mmmmh. I'm getting confused... according to Duchossoir's book, the originals were "sprayed with polyester".

[Buckocaster51]

I spent some time going over my MiJ paisley with a 10X hand lens last night.

Granted my '85 MiJ is not an original and some (or most) of these observations will not pertain to the "real thing," but here they are.

When I hold a pencil point so it touches the surface, under the hand lens I can see a "space" between where the tip of the pencil hits the clear and the opaque finish below. This gives me some sort of idea of the thickness of the finish. As we all know, it is thick! Somewhere around 2mm I would guess.

The paisley pattern and the "foil" certainly appear to be on the same plane. I see nothing to suggest that the pattern is printed on a clear sheet stuck on top of the foil.

If the pattern was "levitating" above the foil, I would expect to see some sort of shadow being cast by the pattern on the foil. None is apparent.

Under the hand lens, you can clearly see the embossing on the foil. It can be seen right up to the edge of the pattern. I can see no indication that the embossing runs under the pattern. Could the die that created the embossing have been cut/masked to emboss only the foil that is visible and is not under the printing? That would be the same as printing another color on the paper. I'll bet it could have been!

As to the nitro/poly question. Could it be that both finishes were used at some time? Or a combination?

It's odd how something that happened only 40 years ago can be so chocked full of mystery.

Paul, thanks much for your NAMM report.

[TDPRI]

Originally Posted by kinkstah

Mmmmh. I'm getting confused... according to Duchossoir's book, the originals were "sprayed with polyester".

That could be, Mike was sure that the body was nitro'd back in '68/'69 but he did say he thought they might have shot poly over the outside of the final finish to complete the whole thing off.

In '68 bodies were finished in Nitro for the most part and in '69 was when the official change to poly happened, the Paisley model spans both years.

[lewis]

This CS relic is for sale at a shop near Denver.
No affiliation, just a cool looking Tele whether it's "accurate" or not.
Masterbuilt One-off by Yuriy Shishkov,'51 No-Caster Specs

[e-merlin]

Originally Posted by TDPRI

That could be, Mike was sure that the body was nitro'd back in '68/'69 but he did say he thought they might have shot poly over the outside of the final finish to complete the whole thing off.

In '68 bodies were finished in Nitro for the most part and in '69 was when the official change to poly happened, the Paisley model spans both years.

I thought you couldn't spray Poly on Nitro because the Nitro cures more slowly and emits a chemical that bubbles Poly.