I've noticed on Ebay...........

mikethebike500 · May 18th, 2008, 10:19 AM

I've noticed that some shops will take say an american deluxe ash tele.....do a bunch of "upgrades" and special things to it, like ad humbuckers...special wiring.....and then market it....I certainly dont care, but I wondered if this is legal to do.....I suppose it could be...I dunno......just wondered if anyone else saw this kinda stuff.....and if they had any opinions or info.....

I suppose it's not much different that one of us modifying a tele , advertizing the mods and then selling it.....discuss

jwells393 · May 18th, 2008, 10:37 AM

Of course it's legal. You can do anything you want to a guitar and attempt to sell it. It wouldn't be right to sell it as new. It wouldn't be covered by the Fender warranty which is pretty worthless anyway.

How about giving us a link to such an eBay listing.

mikethebike500 · May 18th, 2008, 10:45 AM

well...after I thought about it....I kinda figured it was legal.....it just struck me as odd.....like maybe FENDER USA , might not be pleased about it....like I say just kinda seemed weird to me.......

sorry I've got no links....I'm not real computer savy......but the seller was called "voodoo lounge"

newtwanger · May 18th, 2008, 10:45 AM

Yeah, that would be

"VoodooLounge" (Pat's Guitars) stuff.

I find it odd too but his stuff does sell.

I wonder about the Voodoo Lounge trademark (Rolling Stones) as well.

mikethebike500 · May 18th, 2008, 10:53 AM

yeah...well...it's sounds like a cool guitar.....but again, just seemed strange to me

mjb1967 · May 18th, 2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtwanger

Yeah, that would be

"VoodooLounge" (Pat's Guitars) stuff.

I find it odd too but his stuff does sell.

I wonder about the Voodoo Lounge trademark (Rolling Stones) as well.

I checked his stuff out a few times....check his feedback, everyone that buys his guitars are thrilled according to that, and he has sold an absolute ton of them..

riolux · May 18th, 2008, 11:11 AM

I don't know if Fender is happy about the seller marketing the guitar linked above as a custom shop though. It's more of a custom chop.

Ronkirn · May 18th, 2008, 11:34 AM

I've done that in the past.. I often get in new Fenders a musician has bought and wants me to convert the collection of assembled parts into an instrument making changes along the way.

From what I've seen of most OEM Factory products, they aren't musical instruments until someone finishes what the Manufacturer started.

Ron Kirn

Southern ILL · May 18th, 2008, 01:32 PM

Had a long response typed but decided it wasn't worth posting......

great looking telecasters-Great lookin' add-great pictures.....

But way overpriced......and the one thing that pops out to me alot in his auctions is you are always out bid by a bidder with a 1 or less feedback rating.....up until a certain point.....He has great feedback and customers are happy so he's doing just fine........I wouldn't pay that much for a partscaster...but if you got the cash its yours to spend any way you choose.He also sell lots of other quality gear.......

Here awhile back I do believe he tried to use this forum as a selling tool....which seemed kinda dishonest the way it came about......a guy in Forida gonna use a "luthier" in Washington State(Pats Guitars).....he posted a link to Pats Guitars website and there is little mention of Luthier service......I asked the guy in Florida what he needed done to his guitar that someone in Florida couldn't handle....I got no response.....Anyway-search it and see if you feel the same way as I did.......It just doesn't seem right to me.......especially on this forum where there is so much knowlege and great advice....and then there was another thing that happened but I can't remember off the top of my head what it was-but 3-4 new members posting up about how great his guitars are etc....

blacklinefish · May 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM

Wow, those are FANTASTIC photos!

I don't have an eye for taking good pictures, so I don't even own a real camera. When I take photos with my camera phone, everyone understands why they aren't the best.

I really admire great photography.

--gh

axmaker · May 18th, 2008, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwells393

Of course it's legal. You can do anything you want to a guitar and attempt to sell it. It wouldn't be right to sell it as new. It wouldn't be covered by the Fender warranty which is pretty worthless anyway.

How about giving us a link to such an eBay listing.

yup. kinda like the clanet' car. really a mercery chassis and motor, add a body then sell for $720,000......

Ed Bickert · May 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM

As Jwells said it best, "of course it's legal" A better question might be, why isn't it legal? If you bought it you own it. You can carve your name into it, change out everything your heart desrires. You can resell it as your own guitar if you want. The one thing you can't do, the one illegal thing, would be to try and sell it as 100% original Fender.

And also as pointed out, as with anyhting else you buy (computers, cars, televisions, anything) if you modify it and remove it from factory specs you've now altered the factory configuration...in wich case common sense will dictate that Fender obviously can not warranty the work of a third party person. The one exception (I think) is if the work is done by a factory authorized repair shop. They will probably warranty any work that they do as it's done under the Fender moniker and the shop has paid for the right to operate on Fender's behalf. is this true?

thaus · May 18th, 2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklinefish

Wow, those are FANTASTIC photos!

I don't have an eye for taking good pictures, so I don't even own a real camera. When I take photos with my camera phone, everyone understands why they aren't the best.

I really admire great photography.

--gh

The photo's on the Pat's Guitars site are ok but for me personally, I would rather not see a guitar posed on someones couch or on a carpet! I find those type of photos fine for posting here but if you are selling something professionally and want professional looking photo's, buy a backdrop and some decent lighting. I just had a look at his site and saw a relic custom shop Nocaster which looked like nothing I have seen as far as coming from the Fender Custom Shop. Makes you wonder if some of those COA's sold on ebay and CS parts get into hands like this............

PJ · May 18th, 2008, 05:56 PM

It's a value-added service, of sorts, that Fender does, but only at Custom Shop prices. Hats off to Voodoo - he's figured-out that
players would like some improvements that don't require a second mortgage. Nicely done.

Grin'n'pick · May 18th, 2008, 06:18 PM

What I don't like are the huge Fender Custom Shop banners all over the ad. Seems like our old mate Pat churns out decent partcasters, and there is nothing wrong with that, but by labouring the 'Custom Shop' association, which is spurious, I feel he is trying to hook those who don't know better into thinking his merchandise is Fender Custom Shop as opposed to something he has assembled from parts. We know better, but some (many) might not. Caveat emptor and all that, but a bit naughty nevertheless I feel as he does nothing to dispel the casual observer from thinking they are bidding on a Custom Shop guitar. You're right, he actually does nothing illegal, he knows what he's doing, but he's still just a cigarette paper's width away from misrepresentation IMHO, falling just on the right side of the line. I don't like that much, however good his guitars may be. There is a way to go about things. Looking at the guitar on that link I don't think Pat needs to put those banners there, the guitar looks nice enough. He is just trying to justify the massively inflated price by alluding to the Fender Custom Shop (or shouting if one considers the size of the banners).

And Ron Kirn Esq., despite what you say, what you do is very different. I've never seen anything on your web site suggesting (even via oblique insinuation) that your instruments have any actual affiliation to Fender (you don't need to!), you are the antithesis to Pat's Guitars. You're a craftsman rather than an assembler for a start. But if you want direct comparison: you let your instruments, your name, and the staggering quality of your work speak for themselves no matter what components you choose to use in their manufacture. That side of things is moot, people come to you for you. Big difference, and perhaps why we would all kill for one of your guitars any day of the week and would take pride that it was one of yours rather than a Fender Custom Shop. If you improve stock Fenders as a side line I say lucky owners!

May 18th, 2008, 10:19 AM	#1 (permalink)
mikethebike500 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2008 Location: eau claire Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 178	I've noticed on Ebay........... I've noticed that some shops will take say an american deluxe ash tele.....do a bunch of "upgrades" and special things to it, like ad humbuckers...special wiring.....and then market it....I certainly dont care, but I wondered if this is legal to do.....I suppose it could be...I dunno......just wondered if anyone else saw this kinda stuff.....and if they had any opinions or info..... I suppose it's not much different that one of us modifying a tele , advertizing the mods and then selling it.....discuss

May 18th, 2008, 10:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 11,121 101 Photos	Of course it's legal. You can do anything you want to a guitar and attempt to sell it. It wouldn't be right to sell it as new. It wouldn't be covered by the Fender warranty which is pretty worthless anyway. How about giving us a link to such an eBay listing. __________________ Jack's Disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" _ Guys - learn to disable the flash on your digital cameras.

May 18th, 2008, 10:45 AM	#4 (permalink)
newtwanger Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 556 4 Photos	Yeah, that would be "VoodooLounge" (Pat's Guitars) stuff. I find it odd too but his stuff does sell. I wonder about the Voodoo Lounge trademark (Rolling Stones) as well. __________________ _________________

May 18th, 2008, 11:34 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ronkirn Friend of Leo's Join Date: May 2003 Location: Jacksonville, FL Age: 61 Posts: 2,131	I've done that in the past.. I often get in new Fenders a musician has bought and wants me to convert the collection of assembled parts into an instrument making changes along the way. From what I've seen of most OEM Factory products, they aren't musical instruments until someone finishes what the Manufacturer started. Ron Kirn __________________ Lord, give me a sense of humor. Give me the grace to see a joke, To get some humor out of life, and pass it on to other folks. The only thing necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing......

May 18th, 2008, 03:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Ed Bickert Tele-Holic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Cape Cod, MA Age: 39 Posts: 946	As Jwells said it best, "of course it's legal" A better question might be, why isn't it legal? If you bought it you own it. You can carve your name into it, change out everything your heart desrires. You can resell it as your own guitar if you want. The one thing you can't do, the one illegal thing, would be to try and sell it as 100% original Fender. And also as pointed out, as with anyhting else you buy (computers, cars, televisions, anything) if you modify it and remove it from factory specs you've now altered the factory configuration...in wich case common sense will dictate that Fender obviously can not warranty the work of a third party person. The one exception (I think) is if the work is done by a factory authorized repair shop. They will probably warranty any work that they do as it's done under the Fender moniker and the shop has paid for the right to operate on Fender's behalf. is this true? __________________ Sorry, not the real Ed Bickert. Just a fan.

May 18th, 2008, 10:45 AM	#3 (permalink)
mikethebike500 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2008 Location: eau claire Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 178	well...after I thought about it....I kinda figured it was legal.....it just struck me as odd.....like maybe FENDER USA , might not be pleased about it....like I say just kinda seemed weird to me....... sorry I've got no links....I'm not real computer savy......but the seller was called "voodoo lounge"

May 18th, 2008, 10:53 AM	#5 (permalink)
mikethebike500 Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2008 Location: eau claire Michigan Age: 36 Posts: 178	yeah...well...it's sounds like a cool guitar.....but again, just seemed strange to me

May 18th, 2008, 11:11 AM	#7 (permalink)
riolux Tele-Meister Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Age: 29 Posts: 146 6 Photos	I don't know if Fender is happy about the seller marketing the guitar linked above as a custom shop though. It's more of a custom chop.

May 18th, 2008, 01:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
Southern ILL Tele-Holic Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Illinois Age: 37 Posts: 719	Had a long response typed but decided it wasn't worth posting...... great looking telecasters-Great lookin' add-great pictures..... But way overpriced......and the one thing that pops out to me alot in his auctions is you are always out bid by a bidder with a 1 or less feedback rating.....up until a certain point.....He has great feedback and customers are happy so he's doing just fine........I wouldn't pay that much for a partscaster...but if you got the cash its yours to spend any way you choose.He also sell lots of other quality gear....... Here awhile back I do believe he tried to use this forum as a selling tool....which seemed kinda dishonest the way it came about......a guy in Forida gonna use a "luthier" in Washington State(Pats Guitars).....he posted a link to Pats Guitars website and there is little mention of Luthier service......I asked the guy in Florida what he needed done to his guitar that someone in Florida couldn't handle....I got no response.....Anyway-search it and see if you feel the same way as I did.......It just doesn't seem right to me.......especially on this forum where there is so much knowlege and great advice....and then there was another thing that happened but I can't remember off the top of my head what it was-but 3-4 new members posting up about how great his guitars are etc....

May 18th, 2008, 01:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
blacklinefish Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Northwest Missouri Age: 40 Posts: 1,004	Wow, those are FANTASTIC photos! I don't have an eye for taking good pictures, so I don't even own a real camera. When I take photos with my camera phone, everyone understands why they aren't the best. I really admire great photography. --gh

May 18th, 2008, 05:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,746 4 Photos	It's a value-added service, of sorts, that Fender does, but only at Custom Shop prices. Hats off to Voodoo - he's figured-out that players would like some improvements that don't require a second mortgage. Nicely done. __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

May 18th, 2008, 06:18 PM	#15 (permalink)
Grin'n'pick Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sarf Eas' Laandon Posts: 1,856 38 Photos	What I don't like are the huge Fender Custom Shop banners all over the ad. Seems like our old mate Pat churns out decent partcasters, and there is nothing wrong with that, but by labouring the 'Custom Shop' association, which is spurious, I feel he is trying to hook those who don't know better into thinking his merchandise is Fender Custom Shop as opposed to something he has assembled from parts. We know better, but some (many) might not. Caveat emptor and all that, but a bit naughty nevertheless I feel as he does nothing to dispel the casual observer from thinking they are bidding on a Custom Shop guitar. You're right, he actually does nothing illegal, he knows what he's doing, but he's still just a cigarette paper's width away from misrepresentation IMHO, falling just on the right side of the line. I don't like that much, however good his guitars may be. There is a way to go about things. Looking at the guitar on that link I don't think Pat needs to put those banners there, the guitar looks nice enough. He is just trying to justify the massively inflated price by alluding to the Fender Custom Shop (or shouting if one considers the size of the banners). And Ron Kirn Esq., despite what you say, what you do is very different. I've never seen anything on your web site suggesting (even via oblique insinuation) that your instruments have any actual affiliation to Fender (you don't need to!), you are the antithesis to Pat's Guitars. You're a craftsman rather than an assembler for a start. But if you want direct comparison: you let your instruments, your name, and the staggering quality of your work speak for themselves no matter what components you choose to use in their manufacture. That side of things is moot, people come to you for you. Big difference, and perhaps why we would all kill for one of your guitars any day of the week and would take pride that it was one of yours rather than a Fender Custom Shop. If you improve stock Fenders as a side line I say lucky owners!