1958 Telecaster Value???

[meenahga]

Hi all! I am new here. I have the opportunity to get a 1958 all original tele, in VG condition. I was wondering what value a vintage instrument as such would currently hold. I saw a refinished 58 listed for $10,000. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[mellecaster]

On an Original 1958...I wouldn't be wasting my time on an Internet Forum...for a truly informed answer, call Gruhn Guitars in Nashville...or Elderly Music in Michigan...your talking of a rather large investment, so speak to the Experts.

[Dennis68]

Welcome to the forum!

2 questions. What color is it, and what kind of bridge (top loader or backloader?). I will say this before learning anymore about your '58, you can never go wrong getting a reputable dealer's letter of appraisal on the guitar. It helps ensure the guitar is what it is claimed to be. That's an important factor for most buyers, of course. And in alot of cases will net you more interest from prospective buyers, and possibly a higher selling price.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Dennis68

Welcome to the forum!

2 questions. What color is it, and what kind of bridge (top loader or backloader?). I will say this before learning anymore about your '58, you can never go wrong getting a reputable dealer's letter of appraisal on the guitar. It helps ensure the guitar is what it is claimed to be. That's an important factor for most buyers, of course. And in alot of cases will net you more interest from prospective buyers, and possibly a higher selling price.

I'm thinking he wants to Buy one.....not sell one ?

[BroadMaster]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

On an Original 1958...I wouldn't be wasting my time on an Internet Forum...for a truly informed answer, call Gruhn Guitars in Nashville...or Elderly Music in Michigan...your talking of a rather large investment, so speak to the Experts.

+11 So right, melle.
And don't forget to ask 'em about a '58 Bassman to match. What a sweet rig that is. Follow melles 75%rule!

[meenahga]

I don't know much about vintage teles. I am considering buying one offered for sale locally. Seller is in his 70's, doesn't play anymore, after many years of gigging and says he bought it 35 years ago in Texas, I forget the name of the shop he got it from. Says its in VG condition, all original hardware. He says the color is red, just like Ricky Scaggs Tele? I haven't seen the guitar yet, but I am considering going to take a look. He told me the serial number, 29,000 something. Top load bridge. His price seems reasonable. I told him I thought the price was good, and he said it was a nice guitar, too nice not to be played. I figured I would check with some experts here, before I check it out. From what little I have gathered from the internet, it seems like a steal. I don't know. I would have to get a loan this week. Time seems of the essence though. I guess I should look for screw bridge saddles. Serial number seems right for late 58. Any thought are much appreciated.

[BroadMaster]

DON'T tell anyone his location. Sounds like one of those finds. Verify the serial number. Much like a Muddy Waters Tele after he had the neck replaced and the body painted red. If knobs are original, they should be flat top and lighter weight than older versions. Top hat switch, if still original. Check the neck heel date. The body date. Good find if all original.
Or even if some changed parts, too. Ck it out, if it speaks to you, it'll be hard to pass up. GOOD LUCK and let us know.

[Brick]

How would you feel about having your Grandpa leaving $10,000+ on the table?

[meenahga]

Well I went and checked out the '58 tele today. Very played and loved. The seller is a very nice older fellow, in his 70's. Great player, who toured throught out the North Eastern US, Texas, and Europe. He and his wife mentioned some country music musicians he has played with and opened for on tours. I had a good time visiting with him and learning about his Tele. I told him I am going to pursue buying the guitar. I also told him that the guitar may be worth, lots more than what he is asking, and I think his price is really kind of low. He said he knows his price is great and he knows what it's worth. I told him that morally, I kind of felt funny, and offered to help him sell it for more, but he said that he is getting older and would like to kinda just sell it for his asking price, and not have to deal with having to go and get it authenticated on paper, and that he probably should have had the guitar authenticated years ago, but he was always playing it. He calls it his baby, and said it's too nice not to be played. I agree. It really spoke to me when I played it.

I am 42 and I have been playing guitar for many years and love to play. I really love Ernie Ball Music Man guitars and have several, but Wow, that old tele felt great in my hands, and sounded spectacular. Well worn neck. Body has crazing to finish, and wear spots to wood. Very nice natural relicing!!! He has had it refretted a couple of times. It played great. I now have dilemma, as while this started out to be an investment, I don't know if I could bring myself to sell it as it is such an awesome player. I may have to sell a couple of my other guitars. I told him all of this, and he told me that he thinks I will be having a hard time sleeping tonight! lol

He let me take some pics of it. From some very early investigation I have done on the web, I have discovered some interesting things, and any insight or advice any of you vintage experts could offer would be appreciated.
I didn't pull the neck off, or check the pots for numbers or anything, but here are the pics.

Serial# is 29933 which puts it at late 1958.



Nice grain showing thru. One piece ash body I think.





continued...

[meenahga]

Nice subtle reddish color.Fiesta Red???








continued...

[meenahga]

The nut appears to may be newer. It seems whiter that it should be, but it may be original. Also pickguard holes near neck pick-up, arecut thru guard, maybe the original holes had a crack. Pickguard appears very old and does look original though.

Now, the interesting features. The bridge pieces are threaded and this is a top loader as consistent with a late '58. The number of pickguard screws leads me to think 1959. The body also has a cream binding! This struck me as odd, but after some research on the web, 1959 began a custom telecaster option with a binding. I wonder if this is a transitional '58-'59 guitar??? Thoughts??? Questions?

Thanks in advance!

[infiniteposse]

Beautiful guitar! I really appreciate that you were straight with him about it's value. I think you did the right thing and if you end up with the guitar, there'll be no baggage attached to it.

Personal request - ask the gentleman for pics of him playing it back in the day if you do end up buying. History with these guitars is magical.

Please keep us updated. I love these kinds of threads.

[Elliot Easton]

Originally Posted by meenahga

The body also has a cream binding! This struck me as odd

Beyond odd. A '58 Tele w/ binding and just on the front edge? The old man may be craftier than he's letting on!

[Robin Nahum]

Originally Posted by meenahga

...I also told him that the guitar may be worth, lots more than what he is asking, and I think his price is really kind of low.
...

Good on you!! Stories like this make my day.

[Spidercaster]

I've never seen slots in the pickguard before. I'm guessing it's so you can adjust the neck pickup screws. Anyone know for sure?

[Buckocaster51]

Neat.

You should be congratulated on being so upfront with him.

But there must be more to that story.

Bound top.

Neat grain on the back.

Top appears to be virtually grainless.

Whether you buy it or not, you'll have to pick his mind (maybe use the Vulcan Mind Probe ) and tell us everything you learn.

Thanks for sharing

[Joe M]

Originally Posted by Elliot Easton

Beyond odd. A '58 Tele w/ binding and just on the front edge? The old man may be craftier than he's letting on!

Yeah, something is really strange about that body; the grain showing on the back doesn't seem to match the front, among other things, like binding on the top only, like Elliot mentioned. The holes cut in the pickguard mean, to me, that somebody was just too lazy to take the guard off to adjust the pickup.

[BroadMaster]

It'd be nice to remove that pickguard and ascertain if it's a cap on that body. Shouldn't be..... but it would be good to know.

Can/ would you further describe (other than the pic) that small triangle of wood that's missing between the g/d strings?

[allen st. john]

What do you want first, the good news or the bad news?
Clearly, there's some issue with the body. The back has ash grain, the top looks almost like maple. Tele customs were bound front and back, and that transparent reddish finish is not fiesta red and not consistent with a custom color Fender which were done on alder bodies. It's almost certainly a refin, and possibly a repro body.
Beyond that the neck was probably oversprayed when refretted.
Isn't the eight hole pickguard also a later feature? Clearly at least the switch tip has been replaced. You won't know what you've got until you look under the control plate.

The good news: the neck, the neck plate, the tuners, and the bridge are probably worth $3,500, unless there's an issue with these parts that I don't see.
I'm hardly an expert, but I guess I'd buy it on the understanding that I'm getting a cool player's grade guitar at a decent price.

BTW, what does the case look like?

As Eliot suggests, this guy may be a little craftier than he lets on.
allen

[Robin Nahum]

Ahh it's just like the old days when Fuzzy was here.

I don't have my copy of Duchossoir with me. Anybody care to comment on the spacing of the dots on the neck?

Gosh though, a single bound, it would be unusual.

[meenahga]

Thanks for the responses. I am learning more and more, and you are all giving me much to think about. The top of the guitar really had a ton of crazing and maybe with my older digital camera in the poor lighting, the grain isn't showing up. I didn't get the impression that the top was a cap. I am a finish carpenter and know my woods pretty good, and I think I would have noticed, but as I think back, I cannot be sure. It is something I will definitely check out.
He bought the guitar 35 years ago in Texas, I think he said "resurrection guitars" was the shop. This would have been 1973, and the guitar would have been 15 years old at the time. He said they had about 12 old teles hanging up in a line. He went down the line and tried each one, the same Merle Haggard riff, without changing the setting on the amp, and this one sounded and felt the best to him. I must say it does feel really nice.
If it was refinished, it really appears to have been done long ago, judging by the amount of crazing and wear on the finish.
I hope I am making the right decision, as this would be the most I have ever spent on a guitar, and this would be a huge investment for me. Perhaps I will contact Gruhn and Elderly to get their take.
Thanks again, and any other comments, ideas, and suggestions are appreciated!

[BroadMaster]

Could it have been Guitar Resurrection in Austin,Texas? The neck, tuners and neck plate are probably your money back or it could be a real good buy.... you're going to have to look under the hood and the trunk!

I know where the guitar is that the guy from the SONS of THE PIONEERS played with Pics and some documentation. It's Fiesta Red refin with some issues..... It's a real player and sounds fabulous!

So they're out there, yet to be found, for sure. You may/may not have found yours. BTW, what's with the small hole in the fret board between the g/d strings?
Does anyone else see this, or did somebody slip something in my coffee?
The anticipation is exhilarating............... isn't it?

Originally Posted by meenahga

Thanks for the responses. I am learning more and more, and you are all giving me much to think about. The top of the guitar really had a ton of crazing and maybe with my older digital camera in the poor lighting, the grain isn't showing up. I didn't get the impression that the top was a cap. I am a finish carpenter and know my woods pretty good, and I think I would have noticed, but as I think back, I cannot be sure. It is something I will definitely check out.
He bought the guitar 35 years ago in Texas, I think he said "resurrection guitars" was the shop. This would have been 1973, and the guitar would have been 15 years old at the time. He said they had about 12 old teles hanging up in a line. He went down the line and tried each one, the same Merle Haggard riff, without changing the setting on the amp, and this one sounded and felt the best to him. I must say it does feel really nice.
If it was refinished, it really appears to have been done long ago, judging by the amount of crazing and wear on the finish.
I hope I am making the right decision, as this would be the most I have ever spent on a guitar, and this would be a huge investment for me. Perhaps I will contact Gruhn and Elderly to get their take.
Thanks again, and any other comments, ideas, and suggestions are appreciated!

[BroadMaster]

Originally Posted by Robin Nahum

Ahh it's just like the old days when Fuzzy was here.

I don't have my copy of Duchossoir with me. Anybody care to comment on the spacing of the dots on the neck?

Gosh though, a single bound, it would be unusual.

I just looked.... spacing looks correct in comparison. It would be smart to measure them center to center. So far I think the neck is likely legit, as well as I can see in these pics but I'm not gonna say for sure 'til somebody disassembles the darn thing. Even then, I'd want to be able to see it in the flesh before I'd feel certain. There are highly skilled artisans in the craft of resurrection..... The color/ single binding is certainly questionable. caveat emptor........

[getbent]

I don't like the neck logo. If I learned anything from fuzzy, it is about the neck dots and the logos... and that logo doesn't look right in terms of placement.

[BroadMaster]

Originally Posted by getbent

I don't like the neck logo. If I learned anything from fuzzy, it is about the neck dots and the logos... and that logo doesn't look right in terms of placement.

I kinda questioned it too. Then I looked in THE FENDER TELECASTER and there is a pic on page 49 that seems to match up well..... but you may still be right.

I am not the only person that owns this book. It gives the faker a direct lesson in where to place the decal........ I'm just sayin'..... if.

[getbent]

I'm not an expert, but that d is not pointing in the right way...

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by getbent

I'm not an expert, but that d is not pointing in the right way...

It looked that way to me as well but then I went on a Google search and turned up a '58 (at least that what it says it is) and the 'd' in this photo looks identical to me with the tail sticking straight up. Whether that is conclusive evidence or not is of course dependent on whether the picture I've posted is in fact a real 1958 Tele.

[getbent]

here is zombywoofs 58. you can see the difference (although not easy)

[rhh7]

My 2 cents, if it were worth $3,500.00....it would be up on Ebay for $10,000.00

I am too cynical, I just don't believe most of these stories...I would never buy a vintage instrument except from a dealer who could provide all the documentation...and then realize, it's not an investment!

[Telemarkman]

An original '58 would have a 5-hole pickguard and a top-hat switch tip.

The 12th fret dot markers are correct though.

A late '58 would be a top loader (as this guitar), but then it would have the threaded saddles, which this guitar seemingly doesn't have.

[atinder]

I'm with most of the others here: although none of us can tell anything for sure from only photos, it sure seems as though you're probably looking at an original neck (and other parts), attached to a later non-original body. I've had guitars from the '60s that were refinished or modified later (say in the '70s), and they certainly had that much checking/crazing.

So again, I think the price is probably fair for what you'd get. And he probably has some idea of that - otherwise he'd be asking more.

[meenahga]

Originally Posted by Telemarkman

An original '58 would have a 5-hole pickguard and a top-hat switch tip.

The 12th fret dot markers are correct though.

A late '58 would be a top loader (as this guitar), but then it would have the threaded saddles, which this guitar seemingly doesn't have.

The saddles are threaded.

[Telemarkman]

Originally Posted by meenahga

The saddles are threaded.

Oh well, so that makes it a late '58/'59 bridge at least.

The pickguard may of course have been altered to an 8-hole (or rather 10-hole) because those weren't introduced until summer '59. (The seller obviously didn't want to take off the pickguard to adjust the neck pickup )

The barrel switch tip is wrong for a '58 though, because they changed to a top-hat during 1956.

And as others have mentioned, there was never a production model with single binding.

[meenahga]

Originally Posted by BroadMaster

Could it have been Guitar Resurrection in Austin,Texas? The neck, tuners and neck plate are probably your money back or it could be a real good buy.... you're going to have to look under the hood and the trunk!

I know where the guitar is that the guy from the SONS of THE PIONEERS played with Pics and some documentation. It's Fiesta Red refin with some issues..... It's a real player and sounds fabulous!

So they're out there, yet to be found, for sure. You may/may not have found yours. BTW, what's with the small hole in the fret board between the g/d strings?
Does anyone else see this, or did somebody slip something in my coffee?
The anticipation is exhilarating............... isn't it?

I spoke with the seller again tonight. It was Guitar Resurrection. 3004 Guadalupe St Austin, TX. Seems like a reputable place. Anyone had dealings with them?

He purchased the guitar there about 35 years ago. He said he called them a couple of years ago in hopes of verifying his purchase with maybe have some former records, but they didn't have any. They could only verify that the serial number indeed was consistent with a '58.
I asked him if he would be willing to sit down with me and give me some history of himself and his playing, and I guess provenance with the guitar. Over the years, he said many times, people who could here him playing, would come in from the streets in front of the clubs and ask about the guitar.
I want to know who the musicians are in the pictures with him, I saw in his living room, and his extensive touring through out Texas, and Europe. I will let you all know when I find out. I also wouldn't mine doing a little pickin' and grinnin' with him.


As I mentioned before, I am a player, not a dealer. I have several nice guitars, mainly Ernie Ball Music Man, and also my first electric, a '63 Burns of London Split Sound. I have sold a couple of guitars and amps over the years.
Originally, I saw this Tele as a way to maybe make some money, (my house needs a new roof), but after some serious contemplation and consideration, I have decided that I will keep this guitar and continue playing the heck out of it as he has done. The guitar really sounds great and just feels "right" in my hands. Maybe someday when I (hopefully) get to be his age, I will pass the guitar on to someone like myself and pass along a bit of history with it.

I told the seller that I was going to keep it, and he said he could tell that, by the look on my face when I played it, that I probably wouldn't be able to sell it. He felt good that the guitar was going to be played and that a guitar like this, should be.

I'll keep you all posted.

[BroadMaster]

Maybe sell off a couple or three EBMMs for your new roof. They're never gonna sound or feel the same after this tele( or any other for that matter)

Next thing you know, you'll be building partscasters.
BTW: WELCOME to the TDPRI!

Originally Posted by meenahga

As I mentioned before, I am a player, not a dealer. I have several nice guitars, mainly Ernie Ball Music Man, and also my first electric, a '63 Burns of London Split Sound. I have sold a couple of guitars and amps over the years.
Originally, I saw this Tele as a way to maybe make some money, (my house needs a new roof), but after some serious contemplation and consideration, I have decided that I will keep this guitar and continue playing the heck out of it as he has done. The guitar really sounds great and just feels "right" in my hands. Maybe someday when I (hopefully) get to be his age, I will pass the guitar on to someone like myself and pass along a bit of history with it.

I told the seller that I was going to keep it, and he said he could tell that, by the look on my face when I played it, that I probably wouldn't be able to sell it. He felt good that the guitar was going to be played and that a guitar like this, should be.

I'll keep you all posted.

[Mountaintwanger]

Good post.....I can't wait to hear more!...

[Dennis68]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

I'm thinking he wants to Buy one.....not sell one ?

Ok, everything still stands though with the exception of a purpose of the appraisal for attracting more prospective buyers...

[Dennis68]

From the update it sounds like you may have indeed found a nice one. Keep us posted on the outcome...

[meenahga]

Well, I got the loan today. I called the seller and I am on my way to purchase the Tele! My wife and I are having dinner right now. There is WiFi here at the restaurant, and we are waiting for our meals. I figured I would update you all as I am sure the anticipation is killing you all, (and me as well!).
I may not post again tonight. It depends what time I get home. Wish me luck!

[Mountaintwanger]

Good luck meenahga!.....I can't wait to hear about it!.....