do you prefer out-of-phase middle position?

dijos · May 9th, 2008, 07:31 AM

I'm getting ready (after the baby's room is done) to finish up my little project. I have to decide if the middle position (p-90 neck and tele bridge) should be out-of phase or parallel? series? I can't remember? I have a strat and love the thick sound in 2 and 4, but what do you all prefer? how do stock teles come? I know that I should have gotten a 4 or 5 way and wired it both ways, but I think that's beyond me for a first project. I know this is borderline tele-tech, but I'm really asking about sound preferences.

woodman · May 9th, 2008, 07:39 AM

if you go out of phase, i'd strongly recommend series out of phase rather than parallel. parallel OOP is a cool sound, but it's thin and nasal. series OOP is more useful. the standard wiring position 2 (both pickups in parallel) shouldn't be dismissed -- it's both cool and useful.

micpoc · May 9th, 2008, 08:19 AM

It's not a question of "out-of-phase or parallel"; rather, it's out-of-phase or in-phase, AND parallel or series... that is, you can be P-IP, or S-IP, or P-OOP, or S-OOP. After having several guitars with countless wiring schemes, I've come to really like the standard P-IP (parallel in-phase).

If you want to go OOP, I agree with Woodman: P-OOP is REALLY too thin for most applications, though it can sound AMAZING thru the right overdrive.

Get some alligator clips and experiment; that's the only way you can be sure to choose the one right for you.

boris bubbanov · May 9th, 2008, 12:53 PM

I'm half tempted to recommend to folks that they go to Guitar Center, buy a Baja, and spend plenty of time with each of the 4 neck and bridge together sound choices. Very informative, very revealing when combined with different amp settings, different playing approaches. The one that intrigued me the most at first was the series out of phase, but parallel out of phase can be very interesting under the right circumstances.

Just keep the guitar for 35-40 days til you have the different sounds ingrained in your subconscious, the return the guitar for a full refund. Right?

gtech · May 9th, 2008, 01:34 PM

I have a Tele that has the pickups wired OOF and I don't like it. It's too thin.

I did it by mistake when I wired the guitar, and just decided to keep it that way until I decide if I like it or not. But I just tried it again, and decided I keep re-connect the PUs the normal way.

fattybrisket · May 9th, 2008, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dijos

I know that I should have gotten a 4 or 5 way and wired it both ways, but I think that's beyond me for a first project.

My very first soldering job (of any kind) was a recent 4-way switch. It looks a little worse on the diagram than it is in real life. It felt like I stared at the diagram much longer than I actually soldered. I think there will be times when you jonz for the clear sound of the pu's in parallel.

bradpdx · May 9th, 2008, 01:36 PM

I only want to add that many people use the term "out of phase" to describe the number 2 and 4 positions on a Strat, but it is an incorrect use of the term that creates confusion. The pickups are simply paralleled, not "out of phase". If you ever hear a Strat with the middle pickup truly "out of phase", it is pretty darn ugly.

dijos is wiring a 3-position switch with a P-90 and Tele bridge. Given that info, my first recommendation would be: just wire the pickups stock Tele style for starters, which is:

1. Bridge
2. Both pickups in PARALLEL, in phase
3. Neck

Truly out-of-phase in position 2 would just be thin, and I would never wish it to be my only choice for combining pickups. I have a hunch that dijos was confusing "both pickups on" with "out of phase", as is very common in Strat discussions.

True? Dijos, tell us.

dijos · May 9th, 2008, 01:53 PM

TRue, true. part of the confusion for me is the fact that 2&4 are referred to as out of phase. I'd also heard parallel and series. I think that I'm going to go with the regular parallel wiring; I heard deaf eddie's sound clips, and I don't know if I'd want OOP as my only option. A quick follow-up; I'm looking to only have the tone pot affect the neck pickup; does the regular fender schematic cover this? or stew mac's? Obvioulsy, I'm enlisting assistance for the actual wiring/soldering.

woodman · May 9th, 2008, 03:51 PM

not to complicate things unduly, but you can have your cake and eat it too if you use a Superswitch. Deaf Eddie's diagram here: http://www.tdpri.com/wiring5wayStrat.htm

it's working great for me.

May 9th, 2008, 07:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
dijos TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Pete Age: 33 Posts: 53	do you prefer out-of-phase middle position? I'm getting ready (after the baby's room is done) to finish up my little project. I have to decide if the middle position (p-90 neck and tele bridge) should be out-of phase or parallel? series? I can't remember? I have a strat and love the thick sound in 2 and 4, but what do you all prefer? how do stock teles come? I know that I should have gotten a 4 or 5 way and wired it both ways, but I think that's beyond me for a first project. I know this is borderline tele-tech, but I'm really asking about sound preferences. __________________ "Kid, it takes a long time"-Danny Kalb to me in NYC, 1992

May 9th, 2008, 07:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
woodman Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 4,520	if you go out of phase, i'd strongly recommend series out of phase rather than parallel. parallel OOP is a cool sound, but it's thin and nasal. series OOP is more useful. the standard wiring position 2 (both pickups in parallel) shouldn't be dismissed -- it's both cool and useful. __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)

May 9th, 2008, 12:53 PM	#4 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 5,313	I'm half tempted to recommend to folks that they go to Guitar Center, buy a Baja, and spend plenty of time with each of the 4 neck and bridge together sound choices. Very informative, very revealing when combined with different amp settings, different playing approaches. The one that intrigued me the most at first was the series out of phase, but parallel out of phase can be very interesting under the right circumstances. Just keep the guitar for 35-40 days til you have the different sounds ingrained in your subconscious, the return the guitar for a full refund. Right? __________________ Bubban0v

May 9th, 2008, 01:34 PM	#5 (permalink)
gtech Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Quebec, Canada Age: 59 Posts: 1,863 171 Photos	I have a Tele that has the pickups wired OOF and I don't like it. It's too thin. I did it by mistake when I wired the guitar, and just decided to keep it that way until I decide if I like it or not. But I just tried it again, and decided I keep re-connect the PUs the normal way. __________________ Back to practice now...to make my Teles sound good.

May 9th, 2008, 01:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
bradpdx Tele-Meister Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Portland, OR Age: 49 Posts: 477	I only want to add that many people use the term "out of phase" to describe the number 2 and 4 positions on a Strat, but it is an incorrect use of the term that creates confusion. The pickups are simply paralleled, not "out of phase". If you ever hear a Strat with the middle pickup truly "out of phase", it is pretty darn ugly. dijos is wiring a 3-position switch with a P-90 and Tele bridge. Given that info, my first recommendation would be: just wire the pickups stock Tele style for starters, which is: 1. Bridge 2. Both pickups in PARALLEL, in phase 3. Neck Truly out-of-phase in position 2 would just be thin, and I would never wish it to be my only choice for combining pickups. I have a hunch that dijos was confusing "both pickups on" with "out of phase", as is very common in Strat discussions. True? Dijos, tell us. __________________ ---------- Tech Geek and Sensitive Artiste String bender ordinare!

May 9th, 2008, 08:19 AM	#3 (permalink)
micpoc Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Louisiana Posts: 533	It's not a question of "out-of-phase or parallel"; rather, it's out-of-phase or in-phase, AND parallel or series... that is, you can be P-IP, or S-IP, or P-OOP, or S-OOP. After having several guitars with countless wiring schemes, I've come to really like the standard P-IP (parallel in-phase). If you want to go OOP, I agree with Woodman: P-OOP is REALLY too thin for most applications, though it can sound AMAZING thru the right overdrive. Get some alligator clips and experiment; that's the only way you can be sure to choose the one right for you.

May 9th, 2008, 01:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
dijos TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: St. Pete Age: 33 Posts: 53	TRue, true. part of the confusion for me is the fact that 2&4 are referred to as out of phase. I'd also heard parallel and series. I think that I'm going to go with the regular parallel wiring; I heard deaf eddie's sound clips, and I don't know if I'd want OOP as my only option. A quick follow-up; I'm looking to only have the tone pot affect the neck pickup; does the regular fender schematic cover this? or stew mac's? Obvioulsy, I'm enlisting assistance for the actual wiring/soldering. __________________ "Kid, it takes a long time"-Danny Kalb to me in NYC, 1992

May 9th, 2008, 03:51 PM	#9 (permalink)
woodman Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mint Hill, NC Age: 62 Posts: 4,520	not to complicate things unduly, but you can have your cake and eat it too if you use a Superswitch. Deaf Eddie's diagram here: http://www.tdpri.com/wiring5wayStrat.htm it's working great for me. __________________ Truth is stranger than fact ... www.myspace.com/woodymitchellmusic BAND PAGES: www.myspace.com/stragglerswing (Stragglers - Western Swing) www.myspace.com/loafersgloryband (Loafers Glory - '70s country-rock)