Not a bad lookin' 52 tele - blast from the past

[Wardpike]

Originally Posted by poorplayer

http://cgi.ebay.com/1952-Fender-Tele...QQcmdZViewItem

Asking too much dough but looks like a nice straight guitar.

Have you inquired with other sources as to the actual market value of this exceedingly rare '52 Tele (just coming out of the no-caster era, still equipped with broadcaster pups)?

By the look of it, the condition is about 7.5 to 8.0. I have seen a couple of other examples in the 9.0+ condition range recently sell for as much as $110,000.

As 50's guitars are appreciating in value an average of 22% annually now, this is a very wise investment.

What I don't understand is why our friend Laurence (I hope I spelled the name correctly) is selling it.

Kindest regards,

Ward

[axe-me-vintage]

Originally Posted by Wardpike

By the look of it, the condition is about 7.5 to 8.0.

What I don't understand is why our friend Laurence (I hope I spelled the name correctly) is selling it.

Kindest regards,

Ward

Hi Ward this is a good way to spend a Sunday morning getting the feedback on the guitar.

I actually would call it an 8.5 due to the cleanness of the hardware and so little wear on the neck and front of the headstock.The body has checking for sure but it spent it's life by the Great lakes where the weather changes hourly.The pictures actually don't do it justice and it is stunning in person.

As to why I am selling it.That is what I do.I.I just like to acquire classics keep them and play them for a while and then pass them on.

I am keeping the 52 Deluxe that came with it.

Laurence

[ROADMAN]

Hi Laurence, welcome to the TDPRI.
Great to have another informed tele lover on this site and
one who is not above sharing his knowledge is always very
appreciated.
I think Indiana Jones would have been a better handle for you ie: seeker of The Holy Grail...or more like Finder of The Holy Grail.. what a beautifil guitar you lucky dog!

Thanks for the severe GAS!!!!

[64Strat]

Hi Laurence,

Nice find! congrats! it's always exciting when a new find comes to light.

The use of Blacklights is subjective on some aspects of their use. Certainly they are great at spotting overspray. I have seen some whiteguards that are 100% authentic that some will glow that green-ish color (in this case a '56) and some will glow a lavender-ish color ( a bottomloader '58). Have you ever seen that? I know Fender was always experimenting and substituting materials. This makes hard and fast rules about them quite tricky at times.

by the way, I would not use eBay unless I personally know the seller. I have friends that are in the business and they also know who can be trusted.

all the best!

[axe-me-vintage]

I think it depends on the frequency of the blacklight.This is a 65 CAR Strat.And it glows lavender under the first light and green under the second bulb.But it is the same guitar.

[dagger4]

Axe-Me-Vintage,welcome.
Very nice pictures.
The frontbody closeup is on my desktop now .
What a great guitar.

Kind regards

[64Strat]

Originally Posted by axe-me-vintage

I think it depends on the frequency of the blacklight.This is a 65 CAR Strat.And it glows lavender under the first light and green under the second bulb.But it is the same guitar.

well, that is interesting with your CAR. Typical UV blacklights emit a peak around 350nm - 370nm wavelength, which is near UV or UVA. It would be interesting to know what the difference is between your 2 UV sources are.

the '56 and '58 whiteguards were checked at the same time, with the same UV source light, they emitted two different colors. The experts I've talked with say that this is classic Fender using different materials depending on what is available or they were experimenting with a new source for the finish.

by the way, my pre-CBS Strats glow green in regular blacklight UV.

FWIW, the guys I know in the vintage business, who've been in the business for a very long time, do not put a lot of credence in blacklight examination except for overspray detection.

all the best!

[axe-me-vintage]

Originally Posted by 64Strat

FWIW, the guys I know in the vintage business, who've been in the business for a very long time, do not put a lot of credence in blacklight examination except for overspray detection.

The difference in the Blacklights in those photos is that one is a powerful stage bulb and the other is an 18 watt tube.The greenish one is the 18 watter with a very long exposure on a tripod.The blueish one is a hand held point and shoot camera.

A blacklight is very good at detecting different plastics as well.If the knobs and pup covers for example are from different guitars they generally show up different colors.I've had guitars that with the eye the plastic looked identical but it is painfully obvious under the BL that they are not.

Blacklight is hard to spot a very well done,clever refin.But most are not that good and you can see little traces in cracks and crevices of original paint.

When I have guitars that I know are original finish like that 65 CAR or the 52 Blackguard they are useful in showing the dings and fingerboard wear and such.
Also a replaced decal can look real under natural light but when you BL it,it just lays there flat.(And says "You've been ripped off")


These 2 guitars show this well.One is a 55 with a replaced decal.The other is the above mentioned 65 with original decal.

[64Strat]

the spaghetti logo decaled headstock picture is at such a shallower angle, it's hard to compare to the transition logo decal that is a lot more straight on but if it's not under the nitro, it won't fluoresce. Did the factory put 100% of the decals on under the nitro with no exceptions? I don't know.

blacklighting plastic parts: if they are all correct parts, I'd say that's a tough call if you see a fluoresence difference say in either ABS or Bakelite Strat knobs on a specific guitar, for example. I'm sure there are batch to batch differences in the plastic and Fender wasn't great at inventory control either. Just look at how the mixed neck plate numbers based on neck and body dates or look at potentiometer date codes relative to neck and body dates or the use of Stackpole and CTS pots at various different times.

I still think you have to be careful when using a blacklight because it can lead to false positives and false negatives. There's still no substitute for a seasoned eye that takes in every detail of the instrument and has a large database of experience.

Do you travel to the big vintage shows?

[Brutalblues]

Originally Posted by poorplayer

***edit***
But honestly. this guitar might fetch 45k at this time next year. When we went from 30k to 60k in blackguards in the matter of 6 months from end of 2005 to mid 2006, I think it was overdone, and that it will be entirely erased.

So, poorplayer, are you related to Brian?

[thepassivevoice]

Originally Posted by axe-me-vintage

When you blacklight a finish,any newer paint will not glow as much as the older finish,if at all.The newer paint will look quite brownish under the blacklight,where as on a Tele or any Blonde original finish it will almost be a bright green.

Thanks for the information. Now I just need to get hold of a black light...

[axe-me-vintage]

Originally Posted by 64Strat

Did the factory put 100% of the decals on under the nitro with no exceptions? I don't know.
Do you travel to the big vintage shows?

Actually all the decals up until around 1967+ are on top of the finish.It is the last step before the guitar is finished.That is why they flake off.The sphagetti logo on the 55 is a factory replacement but it does not glow as you can see.



You can also see the darker area under and around the decal that was oversprayed before the decal was replaced.
Old decals glow,new ones don't.If it's under the finish it has been oversprayed.
This is how 'correct' it looks to the naked eye.




I've never been to a "guitar show" in my life.

Laurence

[BlackguardBob]

Laurence, I think your '52 Tele is fantastic and worth every cent of what you're asking.

The last guitar like this I sold was $70,000 and I sold one that was a little cleaner for $84,000 just over a year ago.

Good luck with your auction.

Rich BGB

[casterway]

Originally Posted by thepassivevoice

Thanks for the information. Now I just need to get hold of a black light...

Novelty stores like Spencer Gifts carry them, for blacklight posters.

[doublee]

Man that is ALOT of wear on the fingerboard, and the frets look pretty pristine?
The guy bought it in 52 presumably and quit in 82? I been playing my tele since mid 90's alot (13 yars approx) and there is nowhere near that much wear, in fact hardly any. I guess the dude just played alot...

[axe-me-vintage]

Your Tele probably has a poly finish on the fingerboard.The nitro finish on the oldies is very thin.Also there is actually not as much wear as you may think.The top layer of finish wears off and then finger grease discolors the wood.

This is my 56 Tele that has much more wear.

[poorplayer]

Originally Posted by BlackguardBob

Laurence, I think your '52 Tele is fantastic and worth every cent of what you're asking.

The last guitar like this I sold was $70,000 and I sold one that was a little cleaner for $84,000 just over a year ago.

Good luck with your auction.

Rich BGB

Classic! Here's a dealer trying to prop up prices... Same thing's happening with houses, and no one's buying there either... Has anyone seen a 52-54blackguard tele in 8.0 condition sell for 70k recently? That was a bubble and it's now popped. It sucks for guys who bought at the highs... but hey what can you do... Dealers can still make a lot of money, and I hope you do Rich, but not by selling blackguards at 70k. The one at Rumble Seat that was being offered for 70+k is now being offered for 42k... and still no takers. Blackguard prices have collapsed, like it or not, that's the reality.

[JJ]

Anyone notice the $150K Nocaster at the Dallas show...

[poorplayer]

Originally Posted by JJ

Anyone notice the $150K Nocaster at the Dallas show...

The one on ebay?

[JJ]

Originally Posted by poorplayer

The one on ebay?

Not sure if that is the same one or not....Seems like it was in Jay Rosen's booth.........sorry to hijack the thread......the tele in this thread is killer!!!!

[poorplayer]

Jay's got a gorgeous Nocaster on his site now, think he's listed it at 104k. That might be the guitar he had at the show. I saw a Nocaster in Arlington last year that is the cleanest blackguard I've ever seen - that one's on ebay now, and has been on ebay periodically.

[opdev1]

This may be the best thread I have ever read on any guitar forum.

I really learned alot. Best of luck with that guitar.

[opdev1]

PS,

Jay seems to have sold both his Nocasters. The 104K one and the 85K one.

PS, this guitar is back up on the bay for < 50K

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:X:RTQ:US:1123