Some advice on refinishing a 66 Tele. - Page 3

BAW4742 · April 27th, 2008, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

I'll be honest, I would think bending a piece of ash that large all around both sides of the body will be more than a chore. You'll have to contend with twisting, warpage, and swelling. Plus, its pretty difficult to bend non laminated wood that thick without some breakage.

I wraped the edges of a tele body with rosewood and it worked fine. It was thicknessed for sides of an acoustic guitar. I did it in 2 peices - one for the upper body and one for the lower.

I'd have to get some ash to see how much harder that would be to bend but the rosewood worked fine.

PJ · April 27th, 2008, 08:05 PM

Some more of the neckwork...

PJ · April 27th, 2008, 08:08 PM

Bruce...I'm not much of a woodworker, but I assumed you would want to profile the "fix-piece" so it's pre-formed. You know, cut the shape you want on a bandsaw. Am I way off base?

BAW4742 · April 27th, 2008, 08:10 PM

Sweet guitar PJ!

I did a little scaping in the neck pocet on mine earlier today and I think that mine was originally the same color as yours.

PJ · April 27th, 2008, 08:13 PM

There were only a few standard colors (that weren't an upcharge) and that was one of them. That's the same color on the '68 photo I sent you yesterday, I think.

BAW4742 · April 27th, 2008, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

Bruce...I'm not much of a woodworker, but I assumed you would want to profile the "fix-piece" so it's pre-formed. You know, cut the shape you want on a bandsaw. Am I way off base?

Yeah, maybe. That's one idea. If my idea about bending a stip around the perimeter won't work I'm thinking along the same lines as jwells and colt have said. Probably make some templates to route the edges and use them to cut the repair peices as well.

Sand the top, back and sides back to flush and route the edge like it's supposed to be.

PJ · April 27th, 2008, 08:24 PM

If you take the entire profile of the guitar down to meet the extra radius you put on there, then trace where you are, and profile the
add-on piece, it should match very closely, no? Then, use a 60s Tele
template to re-profile the body? That's where I thought you might go with this project. Which is why I thought some shops who build guitars might be able to make "quick" work of something like this, since they have those templates to cut blanks, which would be the secondary part of he job. Then, of course, the edge radius.

allen st. john · April 27th, 2008, 08:45 PM

I've got a stripped '66 that was refinned by a non pro. I've toyed with the idea of getting it refinned properly, but I've decided to leave it be. I've had the guitar for 25 years and futzing with the finish would disrupt that.

If you do decide to do something with yours I'd think in terms of a relatively conservative, professional resoration on the body. I'd have someone fill the routes properly, but I'd leave the radiused edges intact. And then I'd have someone like Mark Jenny do a nice relic'd refinish. If you're asking our advice here, I would respectfully suggest that he'll so much better work than you at a moderate cost, especially given the value of the guitar.

FWIW, the guitar is valuable, but not insanely so. You see mid 60s refin teles with issues for $3-$4K on e-bay.

best
Allen

BAW4742 · April 27th, 2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

If you take the entire profile of the guitar down to meet the extra radius you put on there, then trace where you are, and profile the
add-on piece, it should match very closely, no? Then, use a 60s Tele
template to re-profile the body? That's where I thought you might go with this project. Which is why I thought some shops who build guitars might be able to make "quick" work of something like this, since they have those templates to cut blanks, which would be the secondary part of he job. Then, of course, the edge radius.

I'm with you.

I hadn't thoought about the body template. But it just occured to me - I stripped the guitar twice and the previous owner took it down at least once. Wonder how much wood is missing?

If I'm going to do all of this work I want it to turn out right.

I'm not concerned about making the templates. I just spent about 5 or 6 hours over the last week or so making templates of the neck on the 66. I used them to start cutting a rosewood neck I'm building.

PJ · April 27th, 2008, 08:57 PM

Hey, Bruce, if you stay tuned-in to your thread, I'm sure somebody will come forward with the best approach.

I keep thinking about the scrap that's left when you cut a Tele body out of a rectangular piece of wood. Isn't that a similar shaped piece you'd want to drop your body into, then re-cut it?

jwells393 · April 27th, 2008, 09:16 PM

Here's a lightly reliced '66.

......

Ron Garson · April 28th, 2008, 05:31 AM

And here's mine with its old refin, just to offer, hopefully, some encouragement!

BAW4742 · April 28th, 2008, 05:54 AM

Hi Ron. Sweet Tele! Thanks for encouragement but believe me I don’t need any. I’m fired up for this project! I just have to figure out which way to I’m going.

Does your guitar have smooth or threaded saddles? Are they original?

Ron Garson · April 28th, 2008, 07:27 AM

The saddles are threaded ones, and rather tarnished. The neck date is March '66.

Colt W. Knight · April 28th, 2008, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BAW4742

I wraped the edges of a tele body with rosewood and it worked fine. It was thicknessed for sides of an acoustic guitar. I did it in 2 peices - one for the upper body and one for the lower.

I'd have to get some ash to see how much harder that would be to bend but the rosewood worked fine.

So are you considered bending numerous thin pieces or one large piece?

BAW4742 · April 28th, 2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

So are you considered bending numerous thin pieces or one large piece?

Not sure. I was thinking one or two laminates around the body and them routing a small insert like a top purfling route for the rest of the fix.

I need to see how much this method would fix first and see if I can even bend the ash strips. I've not tried to bend any ash.

I also don't know if this method would be any easier or better than what you and Jwells are suggesting.

BAW4742 · April 28th, 2008, 09:17 AM

[quote=Ron Garson;1221896]The saddles are threaded ones, and rather tarnished. The neck date is March '66.

I have the bridge that came on my guitar but it has solid saddles. Jwells said that his 66 has threaded saddles too.

I wonder if mine were changed before I got the guitar. Have you ever seen a 66 with solid saddles?

I'm not real concerned with this small detail. I'm just curious now.

jwells393 · April 28th, 2008, 09:29 AM

According to Duchossoir, the threaded saddles were used from late 1958 until early 1968. At that time the threaded saddle were replaced with grooved steel saddles. Earlier steel saddles from the '50s did not have the grooves.

I went back and see that your saddles don't have the grooves. I suppose there's always the possibility that a Fender assembler came across an old set of saddles in the back of the drawer and put them in.

......

PJ · April 28th, 2008, 09:34 AM

Your ungrooved saddles look old. Could even be some old OEM Fedner parts. Wonder if they're real 50s saddles that the previous owner put on it?

BAW4742 · April 28th, 2008, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

Your ungrooved saddles look old. Could even be some old OEM Fedner parts. Wonder if they're real 50s saddles that the previous owner put on it?

It's possible. I know he has done a lot of work to his guitars. He did most of the pickup routes or should I say butchering.

I'll have to get up with him and pick his brain a little.

slack · April 28th, 2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwells393

According to Duchossoir, the threaded saddles were used from late 1958 until early 1968. At that time the threaded saddle were replaced with grooved steel saddles. Earlier steel saddles from the '50s did not have the grooves.

Note that there were two different threaded saddles on vintage Teles, and that the slotted saddles used from 68 to 82 are non-ferrous, stainless steel.

1950 smooth chrome plated steel
1950-54 brass (several variations)
1954-58 smooth chrome plated steel (two variations, 45 & 90 degree angles)
1958-68 threaded chrome plated steel (first fine threaded, later coarse threaded)
1968-82 slotted stainless steel

PJ · April 28th, 2008, 04:51 PM

Bruce..great thread for you to keep the group posted on, as your project progresses. Regardless of whether you job it out or do it in-house, be sure to keep us updated.

BAW4742 · April 29th, 2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slack

1954-58 smooth chrome plated steel (two variations, 45 & 90 degree angles)

Slack - what do you mean by 45 and 90 degree angles?

BAW4742 · April 29th, 2008, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PJ

Bruce..great thread for you to keep the group posted on, as your project progresses. Regardless of whether you job it out or do it in-house, be sure to keep us updated.

I’ll keep you updated. I wasn’t able to post anything last night. I had problems with the net saying that TDPRI was not available.

I contacted Mark Jenny. Couldn’t tell from his site for sure but he said he only does finishes.

I also started searching for some ash yesterday. Just didn’t have much time. I figure if I don’t repair the guitar myself I’ll use the wood for another project.

I checked Stew Mac and LMII. Anyone care to provide another good source?

PJ · April 29th, 2008, 08:20 AM

I talk to this guy at the east coast guitar shows every year. I know he does some nice restoration finishes, but not sure about bodywork. But, you could give him a call:

Jack's Guitars Finishes
89 W. Gensee Street
Baldwinsville, NY 13027
315.638.0926

April 27th, 2008, 08:05 PM	#82 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	Some more of the neckwork... __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 27th, 2008, 08:08 PM	#83 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	Bruce...I'm not much of a woodworker, but I assumed you would want to profile the "fix-piece" so it's pre-formed. You know, cut the shape you want on a bandsaw. Am I way off base? __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 27th, 2008, 08:13 PM	#85 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	There were only a few standard colors (that weren't an upcharge) and that was one of them. That's the same color on the '68 photo I sent you yesterday, I think. __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 27th, 2008, 08:24 PM	#87 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	If you take the entire profile of the guitar down to meet the extra radius you put on there, then trace where you are, and profile the add-on piece, it should match very closely, no? Then, use a 60s Tele template to re-profile the body? That's where I thought you might go with this project. Which is why I thought some shops who build guitars might be able to make "quick" work of something like this, since they have those templates to cut blanks, which would be the secondary part of he job. Then, of course, the edge radius. __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 27th, 2008, 08:57 PM	#90 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	Hey, Bruce, if you stay tuned-in to your thread, I'm sure somebody will come forward with the best approach. I keep thinking about the scrap that's left when you cut a Tele body out of a rectangular piece of wood. Isn't that a similar shaped piece you'd want to drop your body into, then re-cut it? __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 27th, 2008, 08:10 PM	#84 (permalink)
BAW4742 TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland's Eastern Shore Posts: 68	Sweet guitar PJ! I did a little scaping in the neck pocet on mine earlier today and I think that mine was originally the same color as yours.

April 27th, 2008, 08:45 PM	#88 (permalink)
allen st. john Tele-Holic Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 543	I've got a stripped '66 that was refinned by a non pro. I've toyed with the idea of getting it refinned properly, but I've decided to leave it be. I've had the guitar for 25 years and futzing with the finish would disrupt that. If you do decide to do something with yours I'd think in terms of a relatively conservative, professional resoration on the body. I'd have someone fill the routes properly, but I'd leave the radiused edges intact. And then I'd have someone like Mark Jenny do a nice relic'd refinish. If you're asking our advice here, I would respectfully suggest that he'll so much better work than you at a moderate cost, especially given the value of the guitar. FWIW, the guitar is valuable, but not insanely so. You see mid 60s refin teles with issues for $3-$4K on e-bay. best Allen

April 27th, 2008, 09:16 PM	#91 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 10,128 101 Photos	Here's a lightly reliced '66. ...... __________________ Jack's disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" ____

April 28th, 2008, 05:31 AM	#92 (permalink)
Ron Garson Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK Posts: 537 19 Photos	And here's mine with its old refin, just to offer, hopefully, some encouragement!

April 28th, 2008, 05:54 AM	#93 (permalink)
BAW4742 TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland's Eastern Shore Posts: 68	Hi Ron. Sweet Tele! Thanks for encouragement but believe me I don’t need any. I’m fired up for this project! I just have to figure out which way to I’m going. Does your guitar have smooth or threaded saddles? Are they original?

April 28th, 2008, 07:27 AM	#94 (permalink)
Ron Garson Tele-Holic Join Date: May 2003 Location: UK Posts: 537 19 Photos	The saddles are threaded ones, and rather tarnished. The neck date is March '66.

April 28th, 2008, 09:17 AM	#97 (permalink)
BAW4742 TDPRI Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland's Eastern Shore Posts: 68	[quote=Ron Garson;1221896]The saddles are threaded ones, and rather tarnished. The neck date is March '66. I have the bridge that came on my guitar but it has solid saddles. Jwells said that his 66 has threaded saddles too. I wonder if mine were changed before I got the guitar. Have you ever seen a 66 with solid saddles? I'm not real concerned with this small detail. I'm just curious now.

April 28th, 2008, 09:29 AM	#98 (permalink)
jwells393 Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Albuquerque, USA Age: 64 Posts: 10,128 101 Photos	According to Duchossoir, the threaded saddles were used from late 1958 until early 1968. At that time the threaded saddle were replaced with grooved steel saddles. Earlier steel saddles from the '50s did not have the grooves. I went back and see that your saddles don't have the grooves. I suppose there's always the possibility that a Fender assembler came across an old set of saddles in the back of the drawer and put them in. ...... __________________ Jack's disclaimer: When I say something.... always ask yourself ..... "What the hell does he know?" ____

April 28th, 2008, 09:34 AM	#99 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	Your ungrooved saddles look old. Could even be some old OEM Fedner parts. Wonder if they're real 50s saddles that the previous owner put on it? __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 28th, 2008, 04:51 PM	#102 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	Bruce..great thread for you to keep the group posted on, as your project progresses. Regardless of whether you job it out or do it in-house, be sure to keep us updated. __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."

April 29th, 2008, 08:20 AM	#105 (permalink)
PJ Tele-Afflicted Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 1,285 4 Photos	I talk to this guy at the east coast guitar shows every year. I know he does some nice restoration finishes, but not sure about bodywork. But, you could give him a call: Jack's Guitars Finishes 89 W. Gensee Street Baldwinsville, NY 13027 315.638.0926 __________________ PJ "I don't know if it's art, but I like it."