Joining Body Wood - Question

[bottleneck]

What glue does everyone use for joining timber to make bodies?
Epoxy (Araldite, or similar?) PVA or other wood glues?
What works best? Any tricks to a superior job?

Also does everyone just butt joint the planks or does anyone dowel or biscuit the pieces together?

What were the early bodies glued with at the factory? I don't think I have ever heard of one coming apart, even after decades of use/abuse!

Thanks...

[Trimmed&Burnin]

For 99% of the wood I use Tight Bond wood glue. I have used dowels and biscits in the past but there is usually no need and for the purists that could "interupt" the transmission of vibration. Just get a good cleanly jointed edge, good wood glue, good clamps and you'll be fine.

[Tom S]

I think for most woods, normal wood glue such as Titebond is perfectly sufficient.

True edges, appropriate glue application, and proper clamping are the keys to getting it right. It's fairly simple...apply glue to both edges (not too thick a layer), then apply even clamping pressure across the length of the joint. I like pipe clamps for this, because the body can rest on the pipe, helping to ensure flatness. Scrape or wipe the excess glue to minimize the work later when it dries. To ensure a good hold, I'd leave it for 24 hours if I could., but the glue dries petty quickly.

I can't think of anything else offhand, but these seem to be the basics. Some other guys might have a few tricks.

[Trimmed&Burnin]

Originally Posted by Tom S

I think for most woods, normal wood glue such as Titebond is perfectly sufficient.

True edges, appropriate glue application, and proper clamping are the keys to getting it right. It's fairly simple...apply glue to both edges (not too thick a layer), then apply even clamping pressure across the length of the joint. I like pipe clamps for this, because the body can rest on the pipe, helping to ensure flatness. Scrape or wipe the excess glue to minimize the work later when it dries. To ensure a good hold, I'd leave it for 24 hours if I could., but the glue dries petty quickly.

I can't think of anything else offhand, but these seem to be the basics. Some other guys might have a few tricks.

Good points Tom,,, I guess after over 30 years of wood working I tend to assume that most guys can figure out how to glue and clamp two pieces of wood. It's easy to forget that what is second nature to one guy will be a total mystery to another,,

[reddogbass]

Titebond Original. With good glue joints, etc, you don't need dowels or biscuits. If there was a benefit, it would be for holding the pieces from slipping around and eliminating the planing necessary from having uneven joints.

[Tom S]

Originally Posted by Trimmed&Burnin

Good points Tom,,, I guess after over 30 years of wood working I tend to assume that most guys can figure out how to glue and clamp two pieces of wood. It's easy to forget that what is second nature to one guy will be a total mystery to another,,

Well, ya never know....

But you covered it pretty well while I was busy typing. Had I seen your post first, I probably wouldn't have added anything.

[RodeoTex]

This is what can happen if you don't plan out your dowels carefully. I no longer use dowels and have had no trouble with any body every coming apart.

[Trimmed&Burnin]

Originally Posted by Tom S

Well, ya never know....

But you covered it pretty well while I was busy typing. Had I seen your post first, I probably wouldn't have added anything.

Actually I meant that you articulated it and gave better instruction than I did,,, I left out some steps that I assumed were a given . One of the things that I've noticed about this forum is that there is a great deal of redundancy, usually 10 guys will say the same thing 10 different ways on the same subject, I usually just let the same guys say the same thing and stay out of the way. You were right on my friend!

[Nick JD]

Hey Bottleneck, if you're looking for Tightbond on this side of the Pacific, I got it from (no affiliation) Australian Luthiers Supplies for $12 for 500ml. It's the same stuff all our American mates use, and apparently it forms a stronger bond than the wood does with itself - so I might just make an entire guitar from it one day.

BTW - watch out for high-oil woods (like many Australian hardwoods) and Tightbond, they don't mix. Then, sand with 36 grit, clean with acetone and use epoxy.

[Tom S]

Originally Posted by Trimmed&Burnin

One of the things that I've noticed about this forum is that there is a great deal of redundancy, usually 10 guys will say the same thing 10 different ways on the same subject, I usually just let the same guys say the same thing and stay out of the way.

Yeah...I've noticed, and I try to do the same. That's why I felt awkward when I posted...by that time you had already covered it, IMO. I hate to be that guy.

[Trimmed&Burnin]

Originally Posted by Tom S

Yeah...I've noticed, and I try to do the same. That's why I felt awkward when I posted...by that time you had already covered it, IMO. I hate to be that guy.

No Man,,, you were'nt that guy,,

[bottleneck]

Thanks for the clues, everyone.
It's not that I haven't glued things up before, just that I was interested to know what others do.
We still don't know for sure what Fender uses, do we??
Thanks NickD for some local knowledge - "Tightbond" is a product that I have not used. Is it waterproof when cured? Thanks also for the warning about some of our Aussie timbers and the oil content, which is another aspect to my question. Some specific timbers can be hard to bond without the right glue and surface preparation - hence my query as to what others do.
I would prefer not to glue at all if possible - and I like to used recycled materials where I can, but salvaged materials in the required widths for a one-piece body are hard to come by.
Cheers

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by bottleneck

Is it waterproof when cured?

Tightbond feels a lot like PVA when ya use your fingers to spread it. I'd say it's waterproof when it's hard. Why? You gonna play guitar underwater?

A good woodworking PVA would be fine unless you plan on gluing critical joints like on acoustic guitars (then, I'd get anal and go for "the best"). There's no shear stress on longitudinal body joints unless you're Keef Richards and your guitar needs to double as a battleaxe, ready to swing at psychotic fanatics.

What kinda timber you thinking?

[bottleneck]

Nick -
I currently have a nice straight grain (nearly quarter) piece of Oregon out of a demolition site (although it had more resin veins than I had hoped after it had been through the planer) and I have bits of Myrtle Beech (Nothofagus Cunninghamai), some blackwood (Acacia Melanoxylon) slabs and have found a nice old doorstep made out of solid river redgum (E. Camaldulensis). I also have some smaller pieces of Assie Oak (E. Obliqua). They all have some potential. I am also trying to track down some Huon. I am currently trying to build a neck out of quarter sawn Aussie Oak, with a little help from a luthier, who is cutting fret slots and fitting a truss rod for me as we speak.
I am putting a resonator cone in this one and that will remove a LOT of body wood where the cone sits down deep. The back will be very thin and I am making the body 2" thick instead of 1.75". That is why I want a REALLY good glue joint and was thinking of using a couple of carefully placed dowells to help hold it all together. I will probably still use epoxy, but wondered what others use!
Cheers mate!

PS - No I won't be playing underwater!!

[Ronkirn]

Recently one of the Woodworker's magazined did a test of the various glues, some pretty exotic. Good 'ol wood worker's yellow Aliphatic Resin Glue (Tightbond) beat 'em all, yep, even Gorilla glue.

With an edge 1 3/4 wide X 15 inches long you don't need dowels, biscuits, or anything else, there's plenty of surface to make an impossibly strong joint even with Elmer's white school glue (the precursor to Tightbond)


Ron Kirn