douglas vs SX

[dusty tolex]

Holy cow there's a lot to read about these guitars here. I'm interested in either an SX or a Douglas tele, and I see that there are interesting trade offs between the two:

Tuners

SX: someone said the SX tuners don't hold very well and need to be replaced but one person said you need to widen the holes to put new tuners in. Someone else said GFS Gotoh-style tuners will pop right in.

Douglas: I can't recall seeing an opinion on the tuner quality here. Anyone care to throw in their two cents?

Bridge

SX: very difficult to upgrade to a vintage style bridge. But the body is string-through, which is good.

Douglas: Although this is a top-loader, it comes with a vintage style bridge that is pre-drilled for a string-through format. So if I was feeling adventurous yet careful I should be able to convert this to string through, I guess...

I wonder if anyone has any thoughts/clarification on these points.

For me, I want a vintage bridge and I want the darn guitar to stay in tune, above all, and the less woodwork I have to do the better. So maybe I want a Douglas tele, as I think I can do a string-through conversion. I would like a maple neck, but ya can't have everything, I guess.

All opinions/thoughts re: SX versus Douglas are welcome!

dt

[guitreble]

is there a reason you dont want a fender or custom? you can find MIM standard, which it seems you would want. you can find 'em for $200 to $350. on ebay and craigslist.

[dusty tolex]

$200 MIM's on Ebay are few and far between and probably have issues at that price that may or may not be fixable. They may not ship to Canada, may not ship via USPS, etc.

$350 is above my ceiling, unfortunately.

I'd rather go cheap and be in control of upgrading the guitar the way I want; a Fender, I wouldn't feel so easy about modding, even if it was cheap.

cheers
dt

[guitreble]

just keep looking!!! i found my 06' MIM brand new for 200 on craigslist and i've since seen more in the 250 range. The best thing about the MIM, is you dont have to worry about any new mods fitting. They even come routed for a neck pup. I would hold out for a bit just to see whats for sale. You may get a Douglas or somthing elese, but from what I've herd on this site, is alot of folks having MIJ or another company will order and buy parts only to find they dont fit....unless your getting it for 50-100 bucks........
....just my 2 cents

[DLGinSC]

I just replaced my tuners with some 18:1 that I bought from Melody Music Online. The only problem I had was that some of the screw holes were just a hair off. But, they were close enough that you could still get the screw in if you just take your time. I did not have to widen the holes they were a perfect fit.

http://melodymusiconline.com/index.p...products_id=59

[91xlntS-3]

DT, I would have to agree that if you hold out, a good MIM standard Tele could be had at a fair price. Here are a few other sites that may help you out:

www.guitarcenter.com Click on the Used Gear Link

www.musicgoround.com I've found some VERY good deals here.

www.gbase.com Good place to look, but can be pricey.

guitarcenter.com has several used MIM Teles now in the 230-250 range.

Hope this helps you out, and good luck!

[blueshawk1]

Gotta love it when someone asks a question like this, only 1 reply out of 5 comes close to answering the question, the rest are about getting an MIM instead.
So I guess I'll even the odds a little.....
I have both a Douglas tele (Rondo doesn't carry the one I have anymore), which is not string through which is fine because it came with a bigsby type tremolo.
I also have an SX tele. Both are very fine guitars. I haven't felt the need to change anything on them myself, except the Douglas, I put in a roller bridge. But everyone is different, there are people here and other forums that will change tuners on a 1000. guitar.
The only thing that would have me choose the SX over the Douglas as far as the ones you are looking at is the string thru body on the SXs, I just prefer that, that plus the SX has a maple board whereas the Douglas has a rosewood, again, a personal preference on my part.

[getbent]

blueshawk,

I agree with you. I am waiting to receive a douglas... rhomco says they are cool and, well, I have a super high opinion of his take (I have a guitar he built and it rules... a 12 string tele) he thinks the Douglas are really good quality... I'm gonna try one!

what sold me on the douglas--> looks, real wilkinson bridge (which I have used and like) and knowing that since it is a wilkinson, I could switch that out and mod the guitar....

I'll let you know when I get the douglas in... heck, I kinda want an sx too!

[mongoose]

Check ebay and take your pick, there are plenty of telecasters under 350. I was going to order an SX but the shipping to Canada is a bit much, I think it makes the guitar come to just over $200 plus you might need to pay some customs on it.
Squiers seem to be popular on this forum too, starting at something like 169 why not jump on it.

[Dan German]

Originally Posted by mongoose

Check ebay and take your pick, there are plenty of telecasters under 350. I was going to order an SX but the shipping to Canada is a bit much, I think it makes the guitar come to just over $200 plus you might need to pay some customs on it.
Squiers seem to be popular on this forum too, starting at something like 169 why not jump on it.

One of the things that attracted me to Rondo (I will be ordering an SX soon) is that their UPS shipping is fully paid up front. That's why it seems slightly steeper than some shippers. So there may be a small fee to pay to the Gummint, but none of those pesky UPS brokerage upcharges. Any CDN members who have bought from Rondo? If what I just said is untrue, I would like to know now. (And besides, there will be shipping charges on those $350 Telecasters, too!)

[dusty tolex]

Guys, I have done my homework; I'm not interested, at least in this thread, in hearing about guitars other than SX and Douglas. I know all about the fenders, squiers, Peaveys etc.

I'm just trying to establish what kind of satisfaction I can expect from these particular two inexpensive brands.

FWIW, I've played MIMs and they all need a better neck pup, and sometimes new tuners are in order. There is no good reason to be in thrall to the Fender label on these guitars, IMO, except for resale value, and even then...

SX teles cost $155 with shipping and customs incl. to most Cdn destinations. That's so cheap it's foolish not to at least get a good handle on these products. I could certainly sell one on Kijiji for $140 if it wasn't to my liking. Geez, I think I just convinced myself.

Thanks for the SX and Douglas input!
dt

[dusty tolex]

PS - have any Cdns bought Rondo guitars and rec'd a bill for Cdn tax after the fact? That would be good to know.

cheers
dt

[mikespe]

Originally Posted by dusty tolex

I'm just trying to establish what kind of satisfaction I can expect from these particular two inexpensive brands.

FWIW, I've played MIMs and they all need a better neck pup, and sometimes new tuners are in order. There is no good reason to be in thrall to the Fender label on these guitars, IMO, except for resale value, and even then...

I am very satisfied with the PUP's in my MIM Tele...however, that's not what you're looking for! I have dealt with Rondo when I purchased my Agile AL2000 LP copy. GREAT guitar. I am not sure of Kurt's return policy to Canada but I know he has a no questions asked return policy if you're in the states. They do have an Agile Tele for $199 which is just a bit more that the SX or Douglas. I CAN vouch for the Agile quality based on my LP. It was FLAWLESS when it arrived! I got the goldtop and the pictures on his site don't do the finish any justice. Here is the link to the Agile TC-630 so you can check the specs. The LP I have also has the Grover Tuners and they hold their tune VERY well. I had it sitting one time (when I first got my Tele) for 3 weeks and when I picked it up it was STILL in tune!

Again, I know you didn't ask about the Agile's but you might want to consider that option as well.

***EDIT***

Originally Posted by dusty tolex

PS - have any Cdns bought Rondo guitars and rec'd a bill for Cdn tax after the fact? That would be good to know.

cheers
dt

Just email Kurt...he usually replies the same day and definitely no longer than 24 hours. He surely will know what you should expect.

[fauxsuper]

I own two SX's: both natural finish ones: one is a P-90 Strat-clone and the other is a Tele-Style one. (with a scallop in the back and the front is dressed away like a Strat) I forget the SX model numbers.

I also have owned a 1963 Custom that I've had since 1965, so I think I know what a "real" Tele is like. (Over the years, I've owned several other made in USA Fenders, as well.)

Observations:

I like locking tuners, for ease of changing strings, as well as elimination of most tuning problems along with the need for string trees. Schaller locking tuners can be had for around $60 and bolt right into place with no modifications and look totally "factory". Sperzals, since they don't use screws on the back to mount them, will leave a row of holes: if that bothers you, go for the Schallers.

I find that many of the tuning problems on the SX's can be traced to the nut. The slots are not cut correctly, nor are they deep enough. Either have a good set-up guy do this, or if you're skilled with fret files, have at it. I have a buddy with an SX "Tele": I re-cut the nut for him and he reports no tuning problems with his otherwise stock SX. He doen't bend strings much, so I don't know if your experience will be the same. But, putting new tuners on without dealing with the nut is unlikely to end all tuning issues.

I've replaced both sets of bridge saddles with stainless steel ones, and that improved both guitars more than I would have thought. The stock saddles suffer from what I call the "sitar effect" in that they impart a fuzzy sitar like sound to the initial attack.

I have a set of Mitey-Mite P-90's on the "Strat" (I've blocked the trem off) , and a Rio Grande "Dirty Harry" in the bridge and a neck pickup from Benbo in the neck position on the "Tele'.

Both guitars sound great. I'm not sure how "traditional" they sound, but the sounds they make are certainly Fender-like, and if you were to hear recordings, you'd certainly think "Tele" when you hear either of them. Actually, the P-90 guitar has a very G & L ASAT vibe to it.

The P-90 "Strat" sounds more Tele like than Strat like. When both pickups are on the guitar has so much "Twang" it's almost funny. You'd swear it was a great vintage Tele.

The "Tele" can go from Don Rich to Springsteen or Jimmy Page, just by using the (stock) tone pot. It's got an amazingly wide rage of useful tones on both pickups.

I'll probably get some interesting reactions to this, but I think the old school 3 piece bridge system is way overated as a tone factor. I tried a six saddle bridge on my 63 years ago, and quickly went back to the stock one, but I didn't notice a lot of difference either way. (I went to the old bridge mainly because I had a place to rest my right hand pinky on the side of the bridge plate.) I think with an SX or Douglas you could go through a lot of trouble for little actual sonic benefit. Besides, the bridge plate looks a lot like the "new, improved" bridge plate that the people who currently own the rights to the Fender name put on their newest Teles. I suppose it all depends on what you're after.

Neither guitar sounds exactly like my 63, but that's part of why I bought them. I'd always wanted a Fender style guitar with P-90's and now I have one. I've also thought a Tele style guitar with the scalloped back and dressed away front would be cool and now I have one of each for a total of less than $500 for both of them.

If I ever sell either guitar, I don't expect to get much out of them, but I don't feel the need to do so. Resale value is of little concern to me. If it is to you, you'll probably be better off with a MM or MIJ Tele.

Everyone who hears or plays either guitar marvels at how nice they feel, sound and play: even before I tell them how little they cost. They have resonant bodies with decent quality wood and great necks: and that's 90 percent of what makes a good guitar IMHO. I'll replace pots and switches as they wear out.

Both guitars have great necks with little in the way of fretwork needed to make them play well. They both have 3 piece ash bodies. The "Strat" weighs in at 7.8 lbs and the "Tele" at 7.4. They both sound great unplugged and both sustain well. The bound necks feel very luxurious and sort of upscale, and the "Strat's" neck is one of my favorties ever, in terms of profile and feel.


No, they are not "real" Fenders, the headstock shape isn't right, (I find the fact that people saw off part of the headstock to make it look like a "real" Telecaster, or replace the necks with a Fender Licensed neck that probably isn't any better, or even as good as, the SX neck to be somewhat amusing.) and the bridge plate has six saddles. If one's objective is to have a guitar with as many of the "must have" checklist of features that make a guitar a "real Tele", there are probably better ways to do it.

(But then again, by buddies SX Tele with a rosewood neck and stock pickups seems so close to my 63 Custom in terms of it's overall vibe, that if I close my eyes I find it very freaky to play.)

I think both my SX guitars can stand on their own merits as guitars. They both have unique, albeit Fender like, voices. I've had people actually laugh at them when I've taken them to jam sessions: but they stopped right away when they heard them. I found this to be very satisfying. They've changed the way I think about guitars.

The bottom line is that Leo Fender's idea for a working man's guitar that could be built in a factory by hourly workers provided a blueprint for inexpensive, great sounding guitars. I think (I've said this before, so I apologize for the redundancy) the SX guitars are MUCH closer to the Leo's original concept than handbuilt, $4,000 replicas of 55 year old factory guitars that sold for $135 when new.

I've heard that Douglas and Agile guitars have better pickups and tuners than SX's. Since I'd have replaced both in either case, the SX ones seem like bargains. Also the SX guitars had some unique features I was attracted to. I've had three of my buddies buy SX guitars after playing mine.

[jwells393]

Could someone post a straight on close-up picture of the SX headstock? I'd like to see what is possible in reshaping. I'll post results here.

Also, how far are the string through holes from the neck pocket?

[fauxsuper]

There have been several posts showing that there is enough material to make a fake Tele headstock out of an SX headstock. The Sx/Agile music forum has several, if you can't find them on here.

You can't make an SX headstock into a Strat headstock without gluing something onto it.

I think you could make a Strat headstock into an SX fairly easily, though. Think of it as a security measure.

[jwells393]

I'd still like that picture so I could do my own PhotoShop check.

[Daddydex]

Sorry Jack, it is upside down and fuzzy.

Dan

[jwells393]

Thanks ........... no problem. That will work just fine.

[jwells393]

Daddydex ........... could you measure the distance from the nut to the end of the headstock?

[Daddydex]

7 3/4 inches from top of nut to highest point on headstock.

Dan

[lostpick]

200 bucks 2 years ago...
I just saw a purple one 2 wks ago
for the same price...
I had an SX in cream...
sold it to get the MIM...
SX was better sounding stock...
MIM needed a new bridge pup...
I know its shallow...but I wanted
the right name on the right headstock..
had post purchase Fender envy that would not go away...

[aunchaki]

Originally Posted by lostpick

I know its shallow...but I wanted
the right name on the right headstock..
had post purchase Fender envy that would not go away...

I've been there!