The Number 1 Fender Telecaster Guitar authority in the world.
   

Go Back   Telecaster Guitar Forum > Main Telecaster Forum > Tele-Technical
Forgot Username/Password? Join Us!
Notices

Tele-Technical Telecaster nuts and bolts talk ONLY


Wilde Pickups by Bill & Becky Lawrence WD Music Products Amplified Parts Mod Kits DIY Amps, Mods, Pedals dallenpickups.com Warmoth.com seymourduncan.com

Forum Jump


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 4th, 2008, 01:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
1 Meg Pot??

Now, all you tele guru's don't laugh at this question because I'm just starting to learn about the inner workings of the geetar.
Does anyone ever use a 1 Meg pot?
Also, what would happen without the pots in at all? Would your guitar burst out in flames?? Just kidding! But seriously I'm just trying to understand the electrical aspect of the guitar.

hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 04:40 AM   #2 (permalink)
Doctor of Teleocity
 
Nick JD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 15,173
1M pots wide open = 250K pots wide open + a fraction of a turn clockwise on your amp's HIGH tone pot.

This is how I like to imagine a guitar's electrics work.

Picture a pond or a small lake. It's oval in my head, might be round or rectangular in yours; make it square if you want - knock yourself out. You stand on one side. You are the amp.

On the other side of this pond is a kid throwing stones: big stones, medium stones and little stones. The kid is the strings. The water surface is the pickup. The ripples from these plops are either quite big, or quite small ... depending on the size of the stone and the force the little punk throws them at the water - and they travel all the way across the pond to reach the other side as big, medium and small waves that lap on the opposite shoreline.

Across the pond, between you and the boy throwing stones, lies a bunch of weighted ropes - some of them are real fat, like ropes that they tie ships up with, and some are like string. An old woman, via big wheels controls these ropes - she can make them go under the surface of the water or float them on the surface.

The boy throws a random handful of rocks and pebbles into the water. Ripples emanate across the pond towards you. They start to reach you and then the old woman wrenches on her wheels and all the ropes cut off the ripples. Your side of the pond become calm again. Used altogether, the ropes are the volume.

The boy throws another handful. The ripples are coming. The old lady winds the wheel that controls a medium rope. The big ripples get over to your side of the pond but the little ones lap against the rope and are eaten up. The ropes used individually are the tone.

The frogs splashing in the corners of the pond are the 60Hz interference.

The old lady's the ground.

Active pickups are special rocks that make a bigger splash.
__________________
You need to roll the dice to be in the game.

Last edited by Nick JD; February 4th, 2008 at 05:32 AM.
Nick JD is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 05:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
Steve G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: LeeK (England)
Age: 37
Posts: 3,821
Nick, did you ever watch Twin Peaks?
__________________
"He was a drinkin' man with a guitar problem..."

http://www.facebook.com/bluesr
Steve G is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links   #
Sponsored posting
 

Old February 4th, 2008, 05:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
Doctor of Teleocity
 
Nick JD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 15,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve G View Post
Nick, did you ever watch Twin Peaks?
The boy throwing stones looks just like David Lynch.
__________________
You need to roll the dice to be in the game.
Nick JD is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 06:29 AM   #5 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
But if the pots are in the lake won't they get wet and short out?
Why did the boy throw stones at the little old lady? To knock her in the lake?
Just having some fun wit ya!
I appreciate the help but I went and read the stuff from the site you sent me and trust me it's much easier to understand then the story was. What happened to the little old lady is what i wanna know??
I know you put a lot of work into that and I'm sorry but it only confused me!

but I did get a good laugh, thanks I needed it tonight!!

Last edited by hugo; February 4th, 2008 at 06:32 AM. Reason: cause
hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 06:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Australia
Age: 65
Posts: 394
The little old lady went on to own a chain of guitar shops which only sold Gibson LP's.....any color, as long as it was black.....
__________________
Heaven: A Bassman 410, a good pizza, and a nice lie down ...oh, maybe a Bigsby Palm Pedal as well....
gumbo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 09:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
Doctor of Teleocity
 
Nick JD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Queensland, Australia
Age: 41
Posts: 15,173
Ahhh, grasshopper - you must become the electron if you are to understand the path.
__________________
You need to roll the dice to be in the game.
Nick JD is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
Snatch the volume pot from my hand. Painful is the sting of the electrons...

Am I the little old lady or the frog or am I the ground???? I'm so confused!!

Thanks for cheering me up Nick. Thanks for taking it all in fun cause that's what it is.

Last edited by hugo; February 4th, 2008 at 10:24 AM. Reason: 87655
hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 10:25 AM   #9 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
Anyway...do people use 1 meg pots in their guitars and if so, is it usually the one for the bridge or the neck or both?
hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #10 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
andrenighthound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bronx NY
Age: 38
Posts: 1,127
i'll swap out a 250k or 500k and put in a 1 meg to get mo trebble out of my pickups. for what i understand, a 1 meg pot will open the sound of your pickup more. i would suspect even mo brighter without any pot in the circuit.
__________________
"Blues in a doggy bag, is what I got to eat!"
www.rosieledet.net
www.myspace.com/andrenighthounds
andrenighthound is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 03:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
What would happen if the quitar had no pots at all and yes, this is a serious question??? If some people do that and it's like having your guitar wide open then why have them at all? Why just not exclude them from the circuit?
hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 03:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: crawfordsville In.
Age: 27
Posts: 131
if you want to hear what a 1 meg pot sounds like when its used properly pickup a jazzmaster or a jaguar, they have one in the rythm section of the guitar.
for the longest time i had my telecaster running "wide open" i put electronics in it about 3 weeks ago and im not sure if i like them or not. i usually don't mess with the volume or tone much so there is no need for them, and in my warped lil mind i swear it sounds better.
Robert(og) is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 04:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
w0odman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugo View Post
What would happen if the quitar had no pots at all and yes, this is a serious question??? If some people do that and it's like having your guitar wide open then why have them at all? Why just not exclude them from the circuit?
If both pots were taken out of the equation and the pickups were just run through the switch and then straight to the jack, you're guitar would sound very bright. You would truly be getting the sound of those pickups

Even with the pots all the way open, they still hold back some treble. It's good to have the pots to have some control over the guitar.
__________________
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world, is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
-Lester Bangs
w0odman is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 04:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
Woodman, thanks for responding. I was just curious. Now, here comes the real question "if you have an Esquire could you put a 1 meg pot in that or would it ruin the Esquireness of the guitar?"
hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 04:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: crawfordsville In.
Age: 27
Posts: 131
woodman, i disagree 100%
especially in my scenario of having a p-90 in the neck and a duncan hot rails in thebridge, with the circut going right to a 2 way toggle switch and then right to a jack, the p-90 was actually much deeper and "robust" than with the pots.
the hot rails always sounds wimpy with the p-90 no matter how you toss the dice, but it sounds great when not compared to it.
i suggest you try it at least once, its quick and simple. and totally revereable within 5 mins of doing the mod
Robert(og) is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #16 (permalink)
Tele-Afflicted
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,296
So Robert are you saying that you don't have pots in the circuit or 1 meg pots in there? Not sure either if you're fond of the potless idea or against it? Or are you just saying that you disagree with the sound outcome? Ya...you're right! You should get a darker tone on the volume pot and brighter on the tone pot. Is this right?
hugo is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #17 (permalink)
Tele-Meister
 
w0odman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 476
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugo View Post
Woodman, thanks for responding. I was just curious. Now, here comes the real question "if you have an Esquire could you put a 1 meg pot in that or would it ruin the Esquireness of the guitar?"

Sure you could put a 1Meg pot in. Personally I would stick with 250k for an esquire. The wide open position in an esquire cuts out the tone pot and capacitor from the equation. Which is what a no-load tone pot does when it's turned the whole way to 10. The added mojo/bonus with the esquire is the lack of a neck pup.

I have done both esquire and no load tone pot in my one tele. The difference is slight but the esquire still had a bit more bight when in the wide open position.

One thing that also affects tone is the capacitor value. A .022 cap will make a guitar with 250k pots brighter than the standard .047 cap.


the only way to figure out what you like is to buy all the different pot values and have a go at it.
__________________
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world, is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
-Lester Bangs
w0odman is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #18 (permalink)
Poster Extraordinaire
 
yegbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Maryland (US)
Age: 59
Posts: 6,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert(og) View Post
if you want to hear what a 1 meg pot sounds like when its used properly pickup a jazzmaster or a jaguar, they have one in the rythm section of the guitar.
Or try out a stock Classic Series MIM '69 Thinline Tele, they come with 1M pots in both positions!
yegbert is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 4th, 2008, 10:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
Tele-Holic
 
6x47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Northern ON
Age: 70
Posts: 802
I think you will have a better idea what your tele pups sound like if you try them without the pots and cap. Losing this stuff really brightens your sound and increases volume.

Although there will still be some stuff there, if you wire a push pull switch to bypass the tone pot and cap, you will have the option of normal circuits or bypass with it's much brighter and louder sound.

You can get an idea of how this could sound by using a clip or jumper cable to temporarily jump the volume pot connection, which has the wire from the switch, to the pot connector which has the wire going to the output jack.
6x47 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old February 5th, 2008, 12:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
Friend of Leo's
 
tdowns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert(og) View Post
woodman, i disagree 100%
especially in my scenario of having a p-90 in the neck and a duncan hot rails in thebridge, with the circut going right to a 2 way toggle switch and then right to a jack, the p-90 was actually much deeper and "robust" than with the pots.
the hot rails always sounds wimpy with the p-90 no matter how you toss the dice, but it sounds great when not compared to it.
i suggest you try it at least once, its quick and simple. and totally revereable within 5 mins of doing the mod
You and woodman are both correct, you just don't realize it.

There is a resonance that exists between the inductance of the pickup and the capacitance of the cable+amp+tone network. If you use a low value pot like 250K, it significantly damps (swamps out/reduces) that resonance. The higher resistance pot, the more pronounced the resonance is. If you have a standard single coil Tele pickup (which has a relatively low inductance), in most cases the resonance will be in the treble region of the frequency spectrum. So a 1meg pot will let this treble resonance be very high. If you have a pickup with high inductance (like a humbucker P90 whatever), the resonance will occur more in the midrange spectrum. Increasing the pot resistance in that case will result in a midrange boost (deeper sound).

Bottom line, wherever the resonance of of the pickup and the cable+amp+tone network capacitance occurs in the frequency spectrum, a large resistance pot will unleash it. It not always treble or midrange. It depends on the pickup.

The sound of a straight wired PU resonance really depends on the cable and amp impedance, which can vary quite a bit.
__________________
tdowns
tdowns is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump




IMPORTANT:Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult! No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 RC 2
© TDPRI.COM 1999 - 2014 All rights reserved.