# wraps, length, split-shaft posts?

[1955]

I'm trying to improve tuning stability.

One issue (among other possibilities that I'm focusing on) may be the amount of string wrapped around the post. I am aware that the nut is usually where to look first.)

I have always wrapped all the way down the split-shaft Kluson-style post, a la Gatton. There seems to be a lot of players who do not do this, who don't have stability issues. I am wondering whether the taper of the modern Gotohs would make Gatton's method ineffective, as I've heard that the original Klusons were not conical or concave/hourglassed, but more cylindrical? Did he continue to use this method on his newer Gotoh-fitted guitars?

I was reading an older thread where Boris had a unique but very logical way of using needle-nose pliers to make two right-angle bends after cutting the string to the proper length.

I tried his method and it got an A-Ha! moment. For the wound strings this seemed to do a great job of directing and anchoring the string around the post, allowing fewer winds around the post and little to no slippage while winding or at tension.

I want to make sure I am measuring properly. My end result, for instance, using Boris' bend method (if I have done it correctly,) leaves me with about 2&1/2-3 wraps around the post for the 6th, or low E string.

Here is where I'm really running into problems. I use 10-46 currently, Ernie Ball regular slinky lately. I've always used the entire high B and E (1st and 2nd), without cutting at all. I have never had much trouble winding strings going all the way down the post, but if I cut the high B and E especially, problems arise for me.

I have seen where some recommend pulling the string taught (prior to cutting,) and measuring two tuning posts past the current post, then cutting a half-inch past that.

The problem a lot of people seem to have (including me,) is that 1st string especially popping out. I tried doing it this way, with no luck. Tried the toothpick, etc. to no avail. Once I get up to tension it slips out. Once I remove the toothpick, it pops loose.

So, here are my questions. Hopefully those of you that have mastered a method that works and keeps your guitar in tune consistently will respond. This is for split-shaft Gotohs, as used in an American tele. I have a plain 17 for the G.

1. How do you measure the cut for each string?

2. How many wraps around the post, and why?

3. Do you cut the plain steel strings, and if so, are your cuts different than for your wound strings, or does the cut length vary any for the (3) G, (2) B, or (1) E? Some people say more winds on the plain strings, etc.

4. Do you have a system that helps the E (1st) string stay in place when brought to full tension?

5. Do you pre-bend your righ-angle? What is your method?

I hope I am not misinterpreting or misrepresenting Boris' method. Boris bends the first right angle down, about a 1/2" from the end of the cut string. Slightly further up, I really like the extra (3/32" - from west to east -if I remember) right angle bend - as detailed in an earlier thread.

The string seems to be guided much easier and has a better anchor to the post using this method.

6. Wrapped all the way down the post: Good/Bad/Ugly?

7. Any other tips for staying in tune? Superstitions and tried & true weirdness - or just common sense - welcome!

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Colt W. Knight]

If you are winding your strings all the way down the shaft on gotoh split shafts, I seriously doubt your tuning stabillity issues are coming from the winding technique, Probably has more to do with your nut or setup.

I just stick the string down to the bottom of the post, and kink it where it comes out while winding. I use a drill with a winding bit. The extra winds, and eveness of the drill really aided in my tuning settling in quicker. As for stability, you don't need that many winds, but they do settle in quicker. The extra winds also help with aggressive behind the nut bends in my opinion.



E - 2 1/2 tuner posts
A - 3 tuner posts
D - 4 tuner posts
G - 5 tuner posts
b - uncut
e - uncut

[Colt W. Knight]

Wish I had a side view, but the originals where not straight shafts.

[1955]

Thanks, Colt W. Knight! Everybody's input helps, and I am very curious to hear what and why from some more tele people!!

I have a great friend who is also a great tech, he just recently showed me his method, very cool to watch. I have to really keep an open mind, because I have been my own worst enemy in the past, with superstitions, inaccurate thinking, etc. His method was very logical, and, when he plays, he is always in tune! Cant argue with what works.

The funny thing is, my previous method with all-the-way-down-the-post worked great with my 13-56 flatwounds. Now that I'm 10-46 round-wound nickel-plated with a plain G, my method went out the window, due possibly to the drastic tension change?. I'm having to re-learn everything, but in the end, I will be a much better player I believe.

If anything works for anyone, and produces a consistent positive result, I want to know.

[Thinlineggman]

For the high E and B strings, I put the string down into the shaft, kink it over the post and start wrapping.

I put the first wrap over the string where it comes out of the post. Seems to help with locking that string into the post.

I hope that made some sort of sense haha. And I have hourglass shaped posts on my tele, btw.

[1955]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

Wish I had a side view, but the originals where not straight shafts.

Good info!

[backporch guy]

On the 1st and second strings, especially, I do a couple of wraps by hand before winding the tuning key. Then I get a good string winder and wind that sucker fast before the string can figure out what you're doing and pop out of the hole.. I generally stretch the string tight and cut the string the length of 2 posts above the intended tuning post.

[1955]

Thanks!

[1955]

Originally Posted by Thinlineggman

For the high E and B strings, I put the string down into the shaft, kink it over the post and start wrapping.

I put the first wrap over the string where it comes out of the post. Seems to help with locking that string into the post.

I hope that made some sort of sense haha. And I have hourglass shaped posts on my tele, btw.

This is an interesting method!

[1955]

Originally Posted by backporch guy

On the 1st and second strings, especially, I do a couple of wraps by hand before winding the tuning key. Then I get a good string winder and wind that sucker fast before the string can figure out what you're doing and pop out of the hole.. I generally stretch the string tight and cut the string the length of 2 posts above the intended tuning post.

I tried this with a used string, that was impossible to "uncurl." Geez, that was a lesson in patience. With a fresh new string, seems its not quite as tough, but still gives people some trouble. Thanks! Good food for thought!

[boris bubbanov]

Here's my cut length, as i remember it:

E) 2.0-2.5 posts;
A) 2.5 posts;
D) 3.0-3.5 posts;
G) 3.5-4.0 posts;
B) 2.5 posts;
Little E) 2.5 posts.

I could be a little off, I do this without even noticing, unconsciously.

The idea is to run it down a good bit on the D and even more on the G to get that "poor man's second string tree" effect. Take it easy on the other 4 strings.

You must cut the B and Little E, although on some brands/models of string, you're only taking 1.5 inches off the Little E. You definitely do not want so much excess that the string binds up and stops resembling a perfect spring. You can almost count on losing the stability if the string overlaps on its previous course. A little of these 2 skinniest strings goes a long way.


I must say though, I am excited that someone finally may have "cracked the code" and figured out what I've been trying to describe in words. I should be beat over the head, for not getting a video together someway and showing people how this works.

And you can cut them even shorter, and the result is still good. We're often afraid, but once you get into this, start cutting them shorter:



White Button Gotohs, anyone?

[Geo]

I do pretty much same as Colt has. That fills the radius area of the
string post and get a good string break angle downward past the nut.

[1955]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

Here's my cut length, as i remember it:

E) 2.0-2.5 posts;
A) 2.5 posts;
D) 3.0-3.5 posts;
G) 3.5-4.0 posts;
B) 2.5 posts;
Little E) 2.5 posts.

I could be a little off, I do this without even noticing, unconsciously.

The idea is to run it down a good bit on the D and even more on the G to get that "poor man's second string tree" effect. Take it easy on the other 4 strings.

You must cut the B and Little E, although on some brands/models of string, you're only taking 1.5 inches off the Little E. You definitely do not want so much excess that the string binds up and stops resembling a perfect spring. You can almost count on losing the stability if the string overlaps on its previous course. A little of these 2 skinniest strings goes a long way.

I must say though, I am excited that someone finally may have "cracked the code" and figured out what I've been trying to describe in words. I should be beat over the head, for not getting a video together someway and showing people how this works.

And you can cut them even shorter, and the result is still good. We're often afraid, but once you get into this, start cutting them shorter:

White Button Gotohs, anyone?

I've read quite a few of Boris' posts, (perhaps all of them have not sunken into my thick skull yet,) and there is a treasure-trove of info graciously shared on many topics. The meticulous aspect of detailed clarifications makes for less headaches for the less-technical (such as I.)

That goes for Colt., et. all as well. I certainly don't take it for granted that the top tier of the telecaster community reside and flourish here. Hope y'all can write a bit off for taxes, because it can be charity work I'm sure sometimes when I start asking questions. Many, many thanks!

So, I'll stew on this good stuff!

[1955]

Originally Posted by Geo

I do pretty much same as Colt has. That fills the radius area of the
string post and get a good string break angle downward past the nut.

I had especially thought that the G needed a strong break angle, because it buzzed my frets when it was cut shorter and installed by a tech. Silly me, not thinking, proceeded to install a string-tree into my 52RI headstock in a bit of panic right before a large gig. Heeeere's yer sign.

I have done worse. Lately I was forgetting that my boiling water was BOILING. iPod clock has an alarm timer...duhhhhh. Now my pocket vibrates, I turn my nose off, run to the closet and everything works itself out.

[1955]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

White Button Gotohs, anyone?

Don't mind if I do.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by 1955

I had especially thought that the G needed a strong break angle, because it buzzed my frets when it was cut shorter and installed by a tech. Silly me, not thinking, proceeded to install a string-tree into my 52RI headstock in a bit of panic right before a large gig. Heeeere's yer sign.

I have done worse. Lately I was forgetting that my boiling water was BOILING. iPod clock has an alarm timer...duhhhhh. Now my pocket vibrates, I turn my nose off, run to the closet and everything works itself out.

Ive seen worse, I mean Keith Richards put a humbucker in his blackguard and Brent Mason swapped to a gotoh 6 saddle bridge on a '68 tele.

[1955]

Well, my first foray into cutting the strings shorter than I'm used to, I got the high E and B on after both slipped completely out a couple times.

Now I'm concerned anytime they will "pop" out, hope not at my gig Fri. But I have a chance to play them for a bit first.

I really hope to get this wrapping and cutting down pat, correctly.

My good friend and guitar tech let me practice a bit on strings that were cut correctly. I must say, the tuning stability was not bad.

[1955]

They actually just slacked a couple times also. Didn't pop completely out once I started to get better at it. The bends come I handy here, just need to practice.

[Colt W. Knight]

Shouldn't really require any practice, just stuff them things in the hole and wind.

[Rob DiStefano]

to each their own, it's all good as long as it works (for you).

for a non-staggered set of vintage style "safety" tuners on non-angled fender style headstocks i use the following formula ...

e - 3 tuner lengths away from the tuner post in question, then cut
a - 3
d - 5
g - 6
b - 3 (this assumes the mandatory e/b string tree)
e - 3

for staggered post vintage "safety" tuners, all cuts are at 3 tuner lengths away from the tuner post in question and the use of an e/b string tree is optional.

for all horizontal hole tuners and either non-angled or angled headstocks, lots depends on the post/hole height and all plain strings get the "overlock" while wound strings don't.

ymmv.