Tried to fix it... broke it worse.

[Philcaster]

Having been inspired by my fellow TDPRI'ers I wanted to mod/repair my Tele. I'm too much of a beginner to do anything of the sort however so I bought a 20 year old Korean Squier Strat to do a trial run on first.

When I brought the strat home the first thing i noticed was that it wasn't holding it's tuning very well - playable but annoying. So I got online and went about buying a new set of tuners, trees, tremolo and nut; all gold, all cheap (two decisions I'm coming to regret.)

I replaced the tuners, trees, trem and nut and now none of the strings will stay in tune long enough for me to tune the other strings! On top of this, my high-E string is making a sitar-esque noise.

Are any of the experts on here willing to try to help me? I've no idea what I've done wrong; I think I need someone to talk me through this
Thanks in advance for your help,

Phil

[LarsOS]

Some of the cheapo parts may be good, others may be bad, so this is what I would do: Put the guitar back to its original configuration. Then start all over again, but switch out one part at a time, and then test the guitar. Notice if the change made the guitar better or worse. If better, keep it, if worse, revert it. Repeat for all parts. At least then you'll know what part causes each problem.

[trev333]

with the sitar noise... your high E nut slot might be too tight,

touch the string behind the nut with slight pressure to see if it goes away to some degree when you play it...
... and make sure all your bridge adjustment saddle screws have even pressure on the plate... ie no loose screws...

some fine sandpaper on edge might ease the nut slot a bit... or some graphite shavings from a pencil tip shaved down as a lube....

see how that goes..;)

[AJBaker]

Originally Posted by Philcaster

Having been inspired by my fellow TDPRI'ers I wanted to mod/repair my Tele. I'm too much of a beginner to do anything of the sort however so I bought a 20 year old Korean Squier Strat to do a trial run on first.

When I brought the strat home the first thing i noticed was that it wasn't holding it's tuning very well - playable but annoying. So I got online and went about buying a new set of tuners, trees, tremolo and nut; all gold, all cheap (two decisions I'm coming to regret.)

I replaced the tuners, trees, trem and nut and now none of the strings will stay in tune long enough for me to tune the other strings! On top of this, my high-E string is making a sitar-esque noise.

Are any of the experts on here willing to try to help me? I've no idea what I've done wrong; I think I need someone to talk me through this
Thanks in advance for your help,

Phil

Sounds to me that the trem is lifting as you tune. Strats aren't the easiest to set up, they can be fiddly. Try blocking the trem (a piece of wood between the trem block and the body stopping the trem from moving), and start over.
Then, with a ruler and capo, do things in this order.
0. Before starting, block the trem and lower the pickups. Pickups too close to the strings can cause funny things to happen. Check neck is well screwed on. Tune up to pitch.
1. Nut slots. Capo between frets 2 and 3, then look at the space between the strings and the top of the first fret. It should be about the thickness of a piece of paper. The slots should be the right size, not too big, not too tight.
2. Relief. Capo between nut and 1st fret, and hold down the low E string at the 14th fret. The distance between the string and the top of the 7th fret should be fairly small, slightly less than a millimetre. Adjust the truss rod.
3. Saddle height. With the capo still on, measure the distance from string to top of the 14th fret. They should all have more or less the same distance, about 2mm. The Fender site has the official specs, I can't remember them right now.
4. Pickup height. Hold down the strings on the last fret and measure from string to top of pickup. Check the fender site for the distance.
5. Intonation. Compare the fretted 12th note to the 12th fret harmonic, and adjust until they are the same.

Now you should have a working guitar! Everything might need a few final tweaks, and you still have to set the trem, but we'll leave that for another day.

[LightninMike]

AJ is on the money... also, check the springs in back:
screwed in correctly?
enough of them?
stretched out?

all of these are possible problems.... I have friends who are guitar techs on the road with some big names... their level of setup is done daily on instruments used with heavy handed players, but they have it right every night

one of the players uses the original NON fine tuner Floyd Rose - the first gen... notorious for not holding tune, and it stays in tune

bottom line, take your time, follow through with the suggestions and you will get it to work out

[Philcaster]

First off - thanks for the help guys; I appreciate it.

As suggested, I blocked the trem, and the problem was still there... but then I realised the problem I thought I had isn't the problem at all. The strings aren't going out of tune (some of them are) but when I play a chord (like an E) the fretted notes are out of tune, the nut slots seem okay, and when I capo the third fret, I can fit about a credit card between the first fret and the strings.

The strings are about half of a semitone sharp at the first fret and this deminishes bit-by-bit as I move up the neck, and at the 12th fret they are barely sharp (if at all).

I think maybe I'll start again, put in some overtime at work and buy quality parts for the guitar and ask you guys for help BEFORE I start. Never the less, I would like to figure out what I've done wrong this time so any help would be appreciated.

With respect to starting again, has anybody got some nice ideas for colours (for hardware, pickguard, pups etc) to make the black body - maple fretboard guitar look a bit sexy?

Also, how big of a job is it going to be to increase the tremolo hole from a 52.5mm screw spacing tremolo to a 56.4mm one?

[Philcaster]

Okay scratch that bit about the tremolo but I think I'll try to do the nut and tuners again.

[AJBaker]

Being able to put a credit card between first fret and string like you said is WAY too much space. The space should be closer to a thin piece of paper or a hair, i.e. almost nothing at all. This is also the reason you're out of tune around the first fret. A nut isn't a part you can just drop in place, it needs to be fitted to each guitar individually, and there are actually some specialist (and expensive) tools for that job.
Try maybe putting the original nut back, and look at the space. To properly fit a nut though, you'll need nut files. But feel to experiment with other tools! I also first learnt with various files and a kitchen knife!
Failing that, you'll need to go to a pro, at least for the nut.

[AJBaker]

...And I just want to add that cheap parts may not necessarily be the problem. In my opinion what you have most likely fine. It just needs setting up. For fun, capo at the first fret and tune up the guitar (with each string a semitone sharp). Does everything now play in tune?

[harold h]

Originally Posted by AJBaker

Sounds to me that the trem is lifting as you tune.

That is probably correct. Block the trem off.

[jefrs]

Originally Posted by Philcaster

Having been inspired by my fellow TDPRI'ers I wanted to mod/repair my Tele. I'm too much of a beginner to do anything of the sort however so I bought a 20 year old Korean Squier Strat to do a trial run on first.

When I brought the strat home the first thing i noticed was that it wasn't holding it's tuning very well - playable but annoying. So I got online and went about buying a new set of tuners, trees, tremolo and nut; all gold, all cheap (two decisions I'm coming to regret.)

I replaced the tuners, trees, trem and nut and now none of the strings will stay in tune long enough for me to tune the other strings! On top of this, my high-E string is making a sitar-esque noise.

Are any of the experts on here willing to try to help me? I've no idea what I've done wrong; I think I need someone to talk me through this
Thanks in advance for your help,

Phil

Hmm, well first of all well done for trying, one learns by mistakes.

1) the tuners did not need replacing, even the nastiest tuners will hold a string tight.

2) the strat trem is notoriously difficult to get right, even the best ones. The "vintage" trem must sit off the deck against the 6 screws and they must all be in level contact with the knife-edge, the screws must not be driven down against the plate, it is a hinge. Don't forget the oil.
Get the strat trem wrong and it becomes an instant de-tuning device.

3) the sitar sound is probably the nut. If the nut slot slopes too much then the string is not seated its full length, and if the slot is a little too wide at the back then the sympathetic vibration of string on the headstock will cause it to sitar against the nut slot. The string tree is supposed to help prevent this. Nut files - nothing else is fine enough to do this job, expensive tools but fairly simple job, requires some skill with little tools, and practice, practice, several/many nuts...

[e-merlin]

What AJBaker said! You've got to get a good baseline before you start. When you block the trem, take the springs off and allow the string tension to hold the trem against the block. Set the trem for the way you play, whether you want to be able to pull up (and how much) or not. After you get the strings in tune, reinstall the trem springs, pull the block, and tighten the springs until the guitar returns to tune. This will give you a perfect balance on the trem.

[Floyd p]

my 1st ppst and ive got to say leave the block in then tune up then tighten springs on back until the block will slip out easy that way you get near perfect balance . trust me it works .
eric

[Philcaster]

Welcome to the Forum Floyd p.

Thanks for the help (and encouragement) everyone else... I'm so happy I didn't do this to my Telecaster...

AJ: My first step is going to be to reduce the nut height some more, I'll get to this tomorrow. I thought I had it almost the same as my other guitar but I'll keep going.

jefrs: could you elaborate on your second point a bit for me please? My trem lifts up okay but maybe I haven't been scientific enough about my set-up.

e-merlin: why didn't I think of that - I'll do it.

[Vizcaster]

There's definitely a safe order in which to tackle a setup, because most things will affect amost everything else. The height of the nut slots, as you discovered, will affect intonation on the lower frets, and the action everywhere. The cut of the nut slots will cause sitar noises and may bind the strings (which is almost always the problem when people think their tuning machines need to be replaced, so unfortunately you might've compounded the problem with a new "cheap" nut). And don't hate me for saying this, fellas, but there really is no such thing as a "pre-slotted" nut - you always need some work with the right tools.

But you're on the right track, hang in there. Maybe get yourself a copy of Dan Erlewine's How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great and then work your way up to the larger book, the Guitar Player's Repair Guide. You've expressed an interest in the tech side of the instrument, which to me can be more fun than playing, and it's something that many players, even pros, simply do not bother with themselves.

[AJBaker]

Originally Posted by Philcaster

Welcome to the Forum Floyd p.

Thanks for the help (and encouragement) everyone else... I'm so happy I didn't do this to my Telecaster...

AJ: My first step is going to be to reduce the nut height some more, I'll get to this tomorrow. I thought I had it almost the same as my other guitar but I'll keep going.

jefrs: could you elaborate on your second point a bit for me please? My trem lifts up okay but maybe I haven't been scientific enough about my set-up.

e-merlin: why didn't I think of that - I'll do it.

Cool! Just bear in mind that you may well mess up your nut and need to use the other one. It's tricky and need some practise, and the right tools make things a lot easier.
What e-merlin said is exactly right! Just make sure everything else is right first.