why does fender use so many ground wires?

[kylejf90]

Hey guys, i was wiring in a new bridge pick up today and was just wondering, why does fender use so many ground wires?? I saw 2 or 3 on my american standard. One is going to a metal ring that is screwed to the body, then there is another one to an additional ring with a ground coming off of that to go under the bridge. Can I just eliminate one of them and go straight from the back of the pot under the bridge? or would this cause grounding problems? over all the control cavity seems unnecessarily full. I appreciate any and all advice!!

kyle

[Cdn_Magnum]

They typically use that many to make sure that they dont have any poor ground connections between bridges, tremolos, pickups, component cavities. Nothing worse than having hum coming and going when your touching various parts of guitar. I would leave them, they put them there based on their experience.

[Martinp]

The body ground connects to the conductive paint in the control cavity, the bridge wire grounds the strings. it keeps the noise down.

[Peter C]

Just leave them be. You need them otherwise you get an awful sound when there is no continuity in the grounding. The only time I get rid of grounding wire is when it is redundant - i.e. creating a ground loop. If you don't know what that is google it or go to guitarnuts website which has a good explanation of it and how to wire a guitar so there is no gnd loop.

[chezdeluxe]

^^^^^ Sorry but you can't get a ground loop in a guitar's wiring. That is urban mythology.Read all about it here guys and pass the word along.

The American standard has those ground wires to connect to the conductive shielding paint in the pickup and control cavities. The Am Std bridge pickup does not have a baseplate (The traditional medium for grounding the bridge and strings) so a ground wire is extended from the cavity shielding paint to sit under the bridge itself. It is all about maximising shielding and reducing extraneous noise.

[cjstcustom]

Originally Posted by chezdeluxe

^^^^^ Sorry but you can't get a ground loop in a guitar's wiring. That is urban mythology.Read all about it here guys and pass the word along.

The American standard has those ground wires to connect to the conductive shielding paint in the pickup and control cavities. The Am Std bridge pickup does not have a baseplate (The traditional medium for grounding the bridge and strings) so a ground wire is extended from the cavity shielding paint to sit under the bridge itself. It is all about maximising shielding and reducing extraneous noise.

i was going to say something to that effect

[sjtalon]

Originally Posted by chezdeluxe

Sorry but you can't get a ground loop in a guitar's wiring. That is urban mythology.

U got dat right.

Originally Posted by chezdeluxe

The American standard has those ground wires to connect to the conductive shielding paint in the pickup and control cavities. The Am Std bridge pickup does not have a baseplate (The traditional medium for grounding the bridge and strings) so a ground wire is extended from the cavity shielding paint

As well as the MIM Standards (& shielded since 1/2006)

[kylejf90]

i probably should have mentioned that the pick up i put in was the duncan broadcaster, it has its own baseplate. so does this change anything?? i appreciate the responses guys!

[chezdeluxe]

You will have a problem with the SD pickup being out of phase with the Fender neck pickup. Look Here This will only be apparent when the two pickups are on together.

To solve the problem you can

A. Ensure the bridge ground wire that is squashed under the bridge is maintained.

B. Cut the small jumper wire soldered to the Broadcaster pickup baseplate.(see photo)

C. Swap the Broadcaster pickup wires where they are soldered to the Switch and Pot.

[Peter C]

Well I am behind the times then about gnd loops if it is now an urban myth - certainly don't intend to perpetuate those things. I am all for questioning things and if scientific method proves previous theories as false I am good. However, I still don't like more wires than necessary so I still do just eliminate what isn't necessary - I guess now it is purely esthetics and nothing else.
Now I'm going to read the link chezdeluxe graciousley put up.

[chezdeluxe]

The link in my earlier posts about the ground loop myth doesn't seem to be working.
Try again.

http://searcystringworks.blogspot.co...ding-myth.html

[Peter C]

Thanks Chezdeluxe - I had trouble on my iPad with the previous link. He looks like he has an interesting blog to boot.

[jonal335]

Some people wear suspenders AND a belt...

[chezdeluxe]

Originally Posted by jonal335

Some people wear suspenders AND a belt...

That has no bearing on the number of ground connections in an AM STD. They are all necessary to connect to separate shielding areas.

[Jack FFR1846]

Not sure I buy the assertion that straying from a star grounding system won't matter.

When I have a noisy electronic system (I'm a switching power supply designer), I make a loop about 1/2 inch in diameter from the scope probe end back to it's ground from stiff wire. I then "sniff" around with it to find the source of the noise. That's not a lot of loop area, but it's all I need. Now, I'll admit that I'm not looking for audio frequencies....it's in the 100's of kHz.

No, there isn't some big AC system at play here, nor any big RF frequencies to worry about. However, if a loop is made, the fields that can penetrate the area inside the loop will induce a current and this will cause noise. His assertion that you can't measure it......maybe he's right. It depends on the source. Get your guitar next to that laptop. That might be a good test.

On the counter side of my argument......forever, pots in strats have purposely created a ground loop. On the top side of the 3 pots, the foil shield can be your primary ground path. On the other side, Fender always seems to put a grounding wire. 2 ground paths and each helps form little loops between the pots. When I first thought about this, I was working on shielding a guitar and used solder wick on each pot.....went down to the shielding and along the shielding making physical contact, then up the next pot, following the metal and leaving no real gaps. This had been a very noisy guitar to begin with. Did it help? I don't know.....I found that the output jack was dirty. I cleaned it up and the noise was gone.

...../rambling.....

[jonal335]

Every Tele I've ever worked on has had metal pots securely mounted on a metal plate, plus ground wires connecting each pot - I would call that redundant even though I do it that way myself ( because that's the way Leo did it )... :-)

[Manolete]

Originally Posted by Peter C

The only time I get rid of grounding wire is when it is redundant - i.e. creating a ground loop. If you don't know what that is google it or go to guitarnuts website which has a good explanation of it and how to wire a guitar so there is no gnd loop.

But any 2+ pickup guitar will have ground loops as standard.

I tried star grounding ONCE. It was a massive hassle and made very little noticable difference.

[KokoTele]

I have sometimes relied on a mechanical connection to provide a ground (like the case of grounding a tone pot through the control plate), but try to avoid it because those mechanical connections are where corrosion often appears as a guitar ages. And sometimes they simply come loose.

The only time I regularly rely on a mechanical connection is when there are simply too many wires already, or when soldering isn't necessarily the most reliable method. (Amp chassis grounds are a good example. It can be tough to get a good solder joint, so a lug tightened down is a good solution.)

I don't like those rings clamped to the pickup baseplate or bridge with spring pressure. Soldering to a baseplate is easy enough, and it's too easy for dirt, corrosion, or other junk to ruin the tiny electrical connection you get between the bridge and the screws that go to the baseplate.

I also don't like to daisy-chain grounds. If one ground goes bad, everything down the line is going to be affected.

[Vizcaster]

Just because it's a loop connected to ground, it isn't a "ground loop,'" or at least it's not something you need to eliminate. When you hit the coil-split switch to shunt off one coil of a humbucker, you don't get noise from the shorted-out coil even though there's now a huge coil of wire with both ends connected to ground.