Three-saddle bridge intonation SECRETS.

[Rob DiStefano]

intonation with a 3 saddle bridge will never ever be spot on, but who cares?

[Randyrocker]

Originally Posted by ScottieHotrod

Just stumbled across this

http://="http://www.seymourduncan.co...ddle_up_your/"

Apologies if this has been posted before but anyone with a vintage bridge NEEDS to read this.

Well a guitar can never ever be in tune at every point on the neck why not use the best alternative - now some companies are making guitars having frets that are literally crooked to make every point on the neck in tune .. Try equal temperament tuning if you have never heard of it.. Its a trade off much as Jerrys tuning is they all are do to the physics of stringed instruments the piano is the same way... It is never really in tune... This was set in stone back in the 1600's that all stringed instruments would always be out of tune its just again physics


For those of you that do not have the equal temperament instructions here they are I am not saying this is the answer as their is not one accept as I said to actually make every fret crooked across the neck...



Equal Temperament tuning...


Tune the Open E and e strings so that they are in perfect unison. The open high e string should be in unison with the harmonic at the 12th fret of the low E.
Tune the E note on the 2nd fret of the D (4th) string to the harmonic at the 12th of the E (6th) string.
Tune the D note played on the 3rd fret of the B (2nd string) against the harmonic on the 12th fret of the D (4) string.
Tune the D note played at the 7th fret of the G (3rd) string against the harmonic on the 12th fret of the D (4) string.
Check the harmonic at the 12th fret of the G (3rd) string against the G note played at the 3rd fret of the high e String. If this is not in tune, something has gone awry in a previous step.
Tune the harmonic at the 12th fret of the A (5th) string against the A note played on the 2nd fret of the G (3rd) string.

[WaylonFan76]

The real secret is to get compensated saddles. I'll never have another Tele without my Glendale upgrades. JMHO

[Randyrocker]

Originally Posted by WaylonFan76

The real secret is to get compensated saddles. I'll never have another Tele without my Glendale upgrades. JMHO

Compensated saddles or not the guitar is never in tune in every location on the neck hahahahah

[Phelonious Ponk]

Originally Posted by tinman402

I had no issues getting mine close enough no one would ever notice.. Seriously you guys should worry less and play more...

I've been taking that attitude since I picked up a Telemaster with 3 brass barrels just after Christmas. I've been playing it for the last 5 months, and it sounded just fine to me. Then I packed it up the other day to drop off for a set-up, and got out my G&L, which I've been playing for 2-3 days now. Damn. I guess I forgot how sweet accurate intonation can be. Now I'm considering holding the Telemaster until I can get a set of compensated saddles in it before I have it fret dressed and set.

P

[tinman402]

Acquired another tele today on trade for a amp I wanted to move... it has 3 steel barrels... The previous owner hated them.. Within about 30 minutes.. I am pretty damn close to perfect.. I can register perfectly open, at the 12th and 12th harmonic on almost all strings, the B and G are off by a hair, just a smidgen.. I can tell but no one else who hears me play can.. I may try a 6 saddle bridge down the road, I just haven't had enough problems yet to spend the money...

as far as compensated saddles, these are about as easy as it gets

Got them on my other tele.. love'm

[Ricky D.]

Originally Posted by WaylonFan76

The real secret is to get compensated saddles. I'll never have another Tele without my Glendale upgrades. JMHO

I like my Glendale saddles just fine. Excellent intonation IMO with 10's and a plain 3rd.

Next build, though, will be Fender threaded steel. If splitting the difference doesn't get me close enough, I'll try the Gene Warner method and bend the intonation screws to angle the saddles.

[Maxwell Street]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew3

Chords in certain places still sound a bit "sour".

That's character...good for rock, blues and c&w...

[ScottieHotrod]

Originally Posted by Maxwell Street

That's character...good for rock, blues and c&w...

Yes, as the above article says - a 100% perfectly intonated guitar would sound bad.

[brians356]

I'll bite: I can get three compensated saddles pretty darn close, but I still have to cheat them slightly by tilting them on their shafts (not bending the shafts, there's enough wiggle on the shafts to get sufficient tilt.) I do this with the strings up to full pitch, using a wooden dowel as a drift. I'll knock one end of a saddle back towards the bridge, say 1/32", which then moves the other end away from the bridge the same amount, so then you have to adjust the length screw for that saddle to get both ends where they should be. As you can imagine, this is a cat-n-mouse game requiring some thought and retries, but it's easier to do than to describe.

Having said all that, intonating with three saddles is waaaay too much work, and is never going to be as well tuned (nor as stable) as six carefully adjusted saddles. If you're only ever spanking and bending away playing loud blues/rock/grunge etc. that's one thing. But try playing more thoughtful harmonic progressions, altered chords with dynamics, alongside a keyboard or other well-tuned guitars and tell me "close enough" is good enough. Why handicap yourself?

I can hear the chorus answering: "Because only three traditional saddles produce the proper Tele tone!"

Baloney. I'd like to meet the expert who can tell the difference by ear alone in a blindfold test.

Now, if you just like the way the three saddles look, there's no arguing with that!

Brian

[GopherTele]

^ Most respectable Tele players with any experience would be able to tell the difference if you swapped their 3 classic saddles with 6 "modern" saddles.

All that matters is how it sounds and feels to the player.

[Nick Fanis]

Originally Posted by Randyrocker

Compensated saddles or not the guitar is never in tune in every location on the neck hahahahah

+100000

[brians356]

Find any yourself any such "respectable" player, and ask them how much money they'll wager on a blindfold test. I made my living with my ears as a professional from age 14 to 33. But now as an engineer for some 25 years with degrees in both Math and Music, I feel I may have some small understanding of the physics of music as well, and I say the whole notion that three saddles sound better than six is laughable, and it would be easy to prove I'm right (once the otherwise identical guitars are prepared.)

"Money talks, ... "

[Rob DiStefano]

right on, brian!

[WaylonFan76]

Originally Posted by Randyrocker

Compensated saddles or not the guitar is never in tune in every location on the neck hahahahah

Pretty close to it, man... I'm telling you.
Direct quote from Dale : "My goal is perfect intonation (within .1 Hz) on all six strings".

[brians356]

"Once you do acid, man, you realize there's no such thing as 'in tune.'"

Arlo Guthrie

[FenderLover]

I guess playing in tune never sounded so wrong.

Technique matters (playing hard and pulling sharp) but string gage matters too. I use 0.011"-0.050" and it sounds like crap without compensation, especially low E.

I've never heard of anyone 'de-compensating' a Strat and loving it. If it were so right, why didn't Leo use three saddles on the Strat?

In the end, a Tele has it's own sound, and I love it for what it is.

[Bob L]

I feel stupid but I don't follow Jerry's method about tuning the G string to A440 at the 12th fret. What am I missing?

[diffeecult]

I believe he is adjusting the D string saddle so that the 12th fretted note is a little bit flatter than the 12th fret harmonic. Then he tunes the open G string just a crumb flat so that it reads 440 on the tuner on the 12th fretted note. I just call it 440. I don't know where the A comes from unless it has something to do with a piano keyboard.

[brians356]

Bob,

Then imagine how stupid I feel that my "search on this page" does not find the so-called "Jerry's method" you asked about. Did I miss a post by "Jerry" or a link to something other than Seymour Duncan's site? I'd love to opine about this mystery method.

Brian