Little question about doing a setup

[hessodreamy]

So, when I'm doing a setup on a tele and I read about the measurements required when doing a setup, it usually starts with checking the truss rod, when you put a capo on the first fret, hold down the last fret and measure the eight.

Then it moves on to measuring string height at the 17th fret. Should I still have the capo on the first fret at this point? Same question applies to measuring distance from pickup to strings.

I seem to get the same confusion from many online instructions. Maybe it's just me. I've done a few setups now and I can never remember how I decided to interpret the instructions the last time!

[Leon Grizzard]

No capo for string height or pickup height.

[hessodreamy]

Thank you ver' much.

[Scantron08]

Definitely not.

[GuitarGeorge]

According to Dan Erlewine, the capo stays on to eliminate nut height when making string height adjustments.

[Jack FFR1846]

Originally Posted by GuitarGeorge

According to Dan Erlewine, the capo stays on to eliminate nut height when making string height adjustments.

Any changes in nut height will be so small in comparison to fretting at the first fret, it should not matter if the nut is off.

If you do the measurement with a capo at the 1st fret, the measurement at the 17th should be somewhat lower, theoretically. I doubt you could see the difference with your eye, though.

That's why nut height is the last thing to do.

[Keyser Soze]

Originally Posted by Leon Grizzard

No capo for string height or pickup height.

I'm of the opinion there is no one best way for everyone.

During basic setup I leave the capo on for everything, including pickup height. But then once I get these 'standard' or ballpark settings I then tweak it all while playing, letting my ear be the final judge.

For example, on a strat with a 'balanced' set of pickups having them all set to the same height (regardless of whether you measure open or fretted) still may not sound balanced, or may not sound balanced when played high up on the neck - in either case you've got to play the guitar to set them properly.

My approach also starts with a dead straight neck, measured by capoing at the first and depressing the strings at the highest fret, then proceeds from there. I only add back in relief if I cannot get the action low enough without some, and even then only only after final nut slot adjustments are made.

YMMV, which is why it is best to do your own setups - what works well for one may not work as well for another. And the only important thing to know is why a particular approach yields the corresponding results that it does.

[hessodreamy]

Cheers guys. I'm a little new to doing my own setups and I often have trouble getting it just how I like it, especially regarding action. But, like you say, it's often that a techie won't get it quite how you like it either.

About truss rod adjustments - does it take a bit of time for adjustments to take effect? I've been making several adjustments, thinking it's not making a difference, then all of a sudden it's gone too far. Should I be waiting? If so, how long?

[TaylorPlayer]

Truss adjustments should be done very slowly and never more than 1/4 turn at a time. When I adjust a truss, I do a tiny bit at a time and then let it sit for a day for the neck to adjust fully before making another 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Shouldn't need much more than that anyway. Remember, Righty tighty (More relief) Lefty Loosy (less relief).

[Flynman]

I have a Les Paul that changes very quickly and dramatically with only 1/8 of a turn on the trussrod. I have a strat that takes a while for trussrod adjustment to take effect. Trial and error (hopefully not any major errors)

[hessodreamy]

OK, let's see what's going on here...

Intonation's ok and action is nearly passable, but a little high for my liking. This is a MIM standard tele. For strings I've got extra light 9s, but if I'm after a low action maybe I should go for 10s?

I'm following the instructions posted by fender here: http://www.fender.com/support/articl...er-setup-guide

Truss rod: I've put a capo on first fret, held down the last fret, and have adjusted the truss rod such that the distance between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom E string is a whisker over the recommended 0.25mm relief for a 9.5" radius (which I understand is radius on mine). Seems ok so far.

Moving on to the action, the guide recommends a distance of 1.6mm between 17th fret and bottom E string. Adjusting the wilkinson vintage 3-saddle compensated bridge I couldn't lower the saddle enough to get this prescribed distance - the screw was all the way down but the distance was still too high. Even at this lowest point, there's a lot of fret buzz. I raise the saddle until the buzz stops, at which point the 17th fret distance is about 1.75mm, so that's pretty high.

As it stands the action's a bit high and the guitar's not a lot of fun to play. What more can I do to get a lower action? Might the neck angle need adjusting? In which direction?

Any thoughts?

[Vizcaster]

Originally Posted by Jack FFR1846

That's why nut height is the last thing to do.

No actually the nut is one of the first things I like to address. Once the nut slots are properly cut, though, you probably never need to change it again.

Also for the OP's last question, a change in string gauge will require some setup adjustments, but don't go up a gauge because you expect the action to be different.

The Fender guide is probably one of the few places that recommends measurements at the 17th fret with a capo at the 1st. Most discussions of action height talk about the string height over the 12th fret without a capo.

The measurement given by Fender for relief is really huge. In inches, they recommend .010" but I usually wind up down at .006 or .007" So start at their spec and see if you're happier with less relief than that.

If you can't get the action low enough, and the saddles are already bottomed out, then unless something else is going on you would benefit from shimming the neck in order to get your action in the right neighborhood. Also, there's a side benefit from shimming the neck: if you can get the saddles sitting higher, then there's a more dramatic down angle behind the saddle and this can sometimes improve tone and the feel of the strings.

[waparker4]

Originally Posted by Vizcaster

If you can't get the action low enough, and the saddles are already bottomed out, then unless something else is going on you would benefit from shimming the neck in order to get your action in the right neighborhood. Also, there's a side benefit from shimming the neck: if you can get the saddles sitting higher, then there's a more dramatic down angle behind the saddle and this can sometimes improve tone and the feel of the strings.

beat me to it!

[BackNtheSaddle]

Originally Posted by Vizcaster

No actually the nut is one of the first things I like to address. Once the nut slots are properly cut, though, you probably never need to change it again.

Also for the OP's last question, a change in string gauge will require some setup adjustments, but don't go up a gauge because you expect the action to be different.

The Fender guide is probably one of the few places that recommends measurements at the 17th fret with a capo at the 1st. Most discussions of action height talk about the string height over the 12th fret without a capo.

The measurement given by Fender for relief is really huge. In inches, they recommend .010" but I usually wind up down at .006 or .007" So start at their spec and see if you're happier with less relief than that.

If you can't get the action low enough, and the saddles are already bottomed out, then unless something else is going on you would benefit from shimming the neck in order to get your action in the right neighborhood. Also, there's a side benefit from shimming the neck: if you can get the saddles sitting higher, then there's a more dramatic down angle behind the saddle and this can sometimes improve tone and the feel of the strings.

In the Fender manual, they recommend measuring string height at the 17th... but there is no mention of doing this with a capo on the first fret.

The capo is only indicated for setting relief.

[drvoodoo]

Well if the frets are worn, leveled and dressed a bit you might also want to recut the nut somwhere down the road? A friend's LP I needed to recut since he had been cowboying it for 20 years and the frets needed a heavy leveling. Next time is refret time on that one.

[Vizcaster]

Sure, but I wasn't thinking of a level-and-crown on badly worn frets in the context of a normal setup.

[charlie chitlin]

Originally Posted by TaylorPlayer

Remember, Righty tighty (More relief) Lefty Loosy (less relief).

Uh, oh.

[guitarzan13]

Originally Posted by TaylorPlayer

Remember, Righty tighty (More relief) Lefty Loosy (less relief).

Yea..... right..... Care to take another stab at that? I think you may have "oopsed"

[aunchaki]

Originally Posted by BackNtheSaddle

In the Fender manual, they recommend measuring string height at the 17th... but there is no mention of doing this with a capo on the first fret.
The capo is only indicated for setting relief.

This is how I understand it, too. There are TWO adjustments going on here. One has to do with the straightness of the neck and the other with the height of the strings above the fingerboard.

Start by getting the neck straight for the current climate, humidity and string gauge. This done by putting the capo on the first fret and manually fretting the last fret (on an acoustic, you fret where the neck joins the body). You're using the strings as straight-edges here. Check half-way between the capo and the last fret. Is the string sitting on the fret? If so, the neck is arched back too much. Is there a lot of air between fret and string? If so, your neck is bowed up. Ideally, there should be a narrow gap at the midway point--the thickness of a business card or medium pick. Adjust the truss rod to get the neck straight for the current conditions. (n.b. as climate changes, you may need to adjust this periodically, esp on acoustics.)

After that's done, you can start working on the "action," or string height. With the neck straight, this is done by working on the nut and bridge, NOT the truss rod. This work is done without the strings being capoed anywhere. Adjustments on the nut should only need to be done once. Height-adjustable saddles make the other part of this adjustment easy. You can get under-saddle gauges that match different fretboard radiuses to make sure your strings curve with your fretboard. (You can make your own gauges, there was a thread a month ago here about it.)

That's how I do it. YMMV.

[Brooks A Hood]

If we are talking about a new instrument with a factory "setup" I would much rather someone left the capo on to set the action. Setting the action with the strings too high at the nut will cause you to have the action too low. This is especially true when the nut slots are left at .020 in. and higher from the factory for whatever reason. The method I have used for years is to hold the strings down on the first fret with an .010 in. feeler gauge between the string and the fret, and then set the action. This gets the action in the ballpark and eliminates the possibilty of mistakes in lowering the nut slots or having the action too low. If you think about it, the string has to be able to play cleanly when you play on the first fret also so having the capo (or the feeler guage which is closer to the final height) should get you closer to the theoretical limit of how low your action can go. But at the end of the day, it comes down to how the neck behaves under tension, how well the frets have been levelled and how the owner plays it.