lets talk about pot... like keef

[jeb stuart]

ok so i am gonna try to make the keith richards 72 custom, black, with my RI. this is the one with the WRHB, single coil, and a master tone. the second tone is replaced with the three way toggle switch

my question is what size pot do i use for the tone. on the seymour duncan web site all the diagrams with HSS and one tone pot say to use a 250k but i know, from experience, that these MIM WRHB do not sound good with a 250k. and the bridge PU that i am using is the fred stuart lap wrap and i fear a 500k might make it to shrill, ya know. any help would be greatly appreciated. thank you. sorry stoners for the misleading title

[KokoTele]

A 500k/.022uf tone control combo yields similar results as a 250k/.047uf combo.

Keep in mind that the tone control only affects the sound when you turn it down from full on. The volume pot has an affect always.

If I were you, I'd go with independent tone controls so you can dial them in to your liking.

[jeb stuart]

Originally Posted by KokoTele

A 500k/.022uf tone control combo yields similar results as a 250k/.047uf combo.

Keep in mind that the tone control only affects the sound when you turn it down from full on. The volume pot has an affect always.

If I were you, I'd go with independent tone controls so you can dial them in to your liking.

do you mean independent tone controls with one volume? that seems to make sense, though i am new to circuitry, and if so what pot would i use for volume, 250 or 500.
my only fear would be that in changing from the WRHB, neck, to the lap wrap, single coil, would i loose a bunch of volume, that seems to be a common problem with the 72s even with the two independent volumes controls. i want to replace the MIM WRHB with another humbucker anyway. would it behoove me to find one with a lower output. eitherway thank you for the input. this is why i love this site.
any wiring diagrams that you would recommend?

[KokoTele]

Wait, what guitar do you have? Don't you have 4 knobs?

You're trying to mix a higher-output, darker humbucker with a lower output, brighter bridge pickup. There is no perfect solution, only different compromises to make.

One approach is to lower the neck pickup quite a bit so that its output balances better with the bridge. The problem is that you'll lose a lot of tone.

Another approach is to put a resistor inline with the bridge pickup. Resistors in series with pickups filter out highs, so you can use that to balance out the tone a little better.

A third (the traditional way) is to just live with the difference and embrace it. Set up your EQ for whichever pickup you like more (or think you will use more), and deal with the fact that the other one doesn't sound perfect.

You also might look at your choice of bridge pickup. On my H-S tele, I chose a bridge pickup that doesn't have the biting highs that some have so that it would match better with my humbucker, and I chose a humbucker with a healthy high end that isn't too dark. This solves about half the problem.

[Alamo]

Wait, what guitar do you have? Don't you have 4 knobs?

Since there's the Keef reference in the OP I suppose this is what Jeb is after.
sacrificing one volume pot and moving the pup-selector switch there instead.
I think Keith had this done because he strums hard at the neck/body connection and the switch got in the way.
...also his jacket

[jeb stuart]

yeah koko, i do have four knobs and i am shooting for three just like keef got above. thanx alamo. if you had to guess what would you say is going on under the hood above?

[jeb stuart]

bump

[KokoTele]

I think it's a fool's errand to try to figure out what's working for Keef and make it work for you. He has a tech to set up his rig to get the tone he wants, and a sound guy to make sure it sounds right. Sometimes pros have surprising things going on "behind the scenes," and it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case here.

I think your better bet is to get a few pots and a couple of caps and start wiring it up and figure out what sounds best to you. You're the one that has to play it.

[jeb stuart]

Originally Posted by KokoTele

I think it's a fool's errand to try to figure out what's working for Keef and make it work for you. He has a tech to set up his rig to get the tone he wants, and a sound guy to make sure it sounds right. Sometimes pros have surprising things going on "behind the scenes," and it wouldn't surprise me if that were the case here.

I think your better bet is to get a few pots and a couple of caps and start wiring it up and figure out what sounds best to you. You're the one that has to play it.

agreed! i thought about walking up to him and asking him but i doubt even keith knows what is going on under there. but i think i found a solution to our quandary here. ready?
telenators mod 1 apparently does wonders for the WRHB and you dont have to change pot size from 250k to 500. so i am thinking if i do this mod i will be able to move the toggle switch down to the knob i will be loosing and still use 250s all the way around.
so the final outcome i think will be three 250k pots. 1 volume and two tone with the toggle switch moved below.
you have been a big help koko. last night i got the buzz out of my bullet strat using your advice and in the next few plan on hitting my tele. if you see anything wrong with the latest idea please give me a heads up otherwise thanks man

[Elias Graves]

I set up my tele (two knob) with a Fender OV and a Duncan mini.
Ended up using 500k pots and an .047 cap. I can't run the tone wide open on the bridge pickup, but around 7 or so, it's perfect.
But that's why we use pots, right? Dial it in.