Keystone's height

[drob]

I've recently installed a set following Bill's nickel suggestion. I find the bridge to be a lot more powerful than I'm used too, and have lowered it almost twice the disctance. Should I have stayed with his suggestion, and adjusted my volume and ears instead? Just interested in others experience. Thank you all.

[soulman969]

Tomorrow I'm getting back my CVC with Keystones which were installed via Bill's recommendations so I can tell you then what I'm finding. Those pickups are very sensitive to pickup height and Bill's instructions tell you that small changes will yield bigger results in output.

I have a set of Nocasters in one of my Tele's with resistance readings of 7.1/7.3 B/N and the Keystones read 7.98/7.63 B/N. The Alnico V's in my MIM read significantly lower than either of these so it depends on what pickups you're comparing the Keystones to.

I expect the Keystone bridge to have higher output than the Nocaster bridge and much higher output than the Alnico V bridge which if I remember reads somewhere around 6.3.

I think Bill's suggestion are just that. If you enjoy the tonality and the output where you have it adjusted then that's where you stay. It's you who are the final judge.

[blowtorch]

I was gonna finally be able to hear my Keystones when I asked my tech to stick them in my #1 tele , but they wouldn't fit. Happy ending though, I had thought the original pickups (which I'd loved) were maybe dead but he fixed some wiring and got them up and running.

Yeah I know it's pathetic that I don't do this stuff myself

[honeycreek]

Did you fret at the last fret and then use the nickel(s)? I'm surprised they are more powerful than what you are used to as I thought they weren't as strong as what I pulled out (ceramics). Whatever sounds better to you is the right answer though. Personally, I would suggest playing them for a while at the "suggested" height and adjust the amp...although I never follow that advice.

[drob]

Yes at the last fret. Mind you they were going in a CVC that are known for underwound pick ups.

[honeycreek]

If you put the new pickups in and didn't change your amp settings, then you are probably doing the new pickups a dis-service as your current amp settings are probably compensating for your old pickups. I say this because I've done it.

[jackal]

Someone here recently recommended a nickel on the small E, and two dimes on the big E with the strings fretted at the last fret. I tried that on several of my guitars, not just the ones with keystones and have never been happier with the sound of the bridge pups.

[Fun with a Tele]

On a similar note, I'm not able to put the Keystone bridge pickup on my Bigsby'd Tele high enough because of the threaded bushings on the coil side of it. Even when it's all the way up and the bushings are tight against the bridge plate, there's still a gap of about 6 mm (about ¼") between the strings and the bobbin.
Has anybody else encountered this and if so, how did you fix it ? Surely, there's a more elegant solution for this than drilling them out and glueing nuts to to bottom of the pickup.

Before you ask, the Mustang-type bridge is already at it's lowest, barely hovering about the bridge plate. It's one of many reasons I asked you where I could get custom saddles made.

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by drob

Yes at the last fret. Mind you they were going in a CVC that are known for underwound pick ups.

CVC's have Alnico V's in them just like my MIM and just like the ones I replaced with Keystones in my CVC. The output of an Alnico V will be much lower than the Keystones. That may be one reason why the Keystones sound so much louder.

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by Fun with a Tele

On a similar note, I'm not able to put the Keystone bridge pickup on my Bigsby'd Tele high enough because of the threaded bushings on the coil side of it. Even when it's all the way up and the bushings are tight against the bridge plate, there's still a gap of about 6 mm (about ¼") between the strings and the bobbin.
Has anybody else encountered this and if so, how did you fix it ? Surely, there's a more elegant solution for this than drilling them out and glueing nuts to to bottom of the pickup.

Before you ask, the Mustang-type bridge is already at it's lowest, barely hovering about the bridge plate. It's one of many reasons I asked you where I could get custom saddles made.

Sorry I don't have an answer for you on this. I have no experience with a Bigsby. Someone on here may be able to give you some guidance but you many also want to email old Bill Lawrence himself. He or one of his staff may be able to offer some guidance. Caution, don't expect a quick response. They're a real small group.

[trev333]

does Bill include a nickle and a dime with every PU set?...

for those outside the US.....

[Piotr]

Originally Posted by Fun with a Tele

On a similar note, I'm not able to put the Keystone bridge pickup on my Bigsby'd Tele high enough because of the threaded bushings on the coil side of it. Even when it's all the way up and the bushings are tight against the bridge plate, there's still a gap of about 6 mm (about ¼") between the strings and the bobbin.
Has anybody else encountered this and if so, how did you fix it ? Surely, there's a more elegant solution for this than drilling them out and glueing nuts to to bottom of the pickup.[/url]

I know this problem all too well, albeit with a different tremolo bridge. Check out this thread, especially my final post. It MIGHT help. I assume you made sure that the strings are as low over the pickups as sensibly possible - meaning that the bridge saddles are low. If not, you might need to play more with the saddles AND the neck angle together.
Stetsbar woes

[drob]

Originally Posted by trev333

does Bill include a nickle and a dime with every PU set?...

for those outside the US.....

I think you solved my problem. I've been using a Canadian nickel!

[garrett]

For the metrically inclined, that's 2mm on the high E and 4mm on the low E.

It's a starting point, not a rule. Bill suggests adjusting the bridge pickup to taste from that starting point, then adjust the neck pickup to match the output.

Nothing wrong with lowering them, but it reduces output and lows.

[sjtalon]

and that's with the string fretted at the last

And FWIW, I remember not having to move them much from there in my case.
Just slightly to get balance.

[boris bubbanov]

Of all of the pickups I have tried, the Keystones have the largest range of potential useful height settings of all. Don't assume because you haven't got a nickel, that you're at a disadvantage. Just start trying different heights; sample them all (and yes, clean slate on your amp eqs) and try everything and anything. Don't just tell yourself it can't be that high or that low. If it sounds useful, don't reject it just because it seems too low (or high).

So, to the Mustang Bridge user, try the pups at 1/4 inch before spending more money trying to get a higher setting. Also, these pickups can be body mounted and that'll give you more range (if you dispense with the surround). Remember, if you body mount, support the pickup at the mount point and don't just shove a piece of foam under the middle of the pickup and start cinching it down - that is unacceptable (squeal) and could damage the pickup even.

[cornfed]

OOPS,,,Typo, He meant Keystone Light
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnjrzw4ADV1qkqpdr.jpg
LOL

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by trev333

does Bill include a nickle and a dime with every PU set?...

for those outside the US.....

Used to but no more. Times are hard here too mate.

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by drob

I think you solved my problem. I've been using a Canadian nickel!

I thought the Canadian dollar was stronger than the USD these days. Wouldn't that mean the Canadian nickel is thicker?

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

Of all of the pickups I have tried, the Keystones have the largest range of potential useful height settings of all. Don't assume because you haven't got a nickel, that you're at a disadvantage. Just start trying different heights; sample them all (and yes, clean slate on your amp eqs) and try everything and anything. Don't just tell yourself it can't be that high or that low. If it sounds useful, don't reject it just because it seems too low (or high).

So, to the Mustang Bridge user, try the pups at 1/4 inch before spending more money trying to get a higher setting. Also, these pickups can be body mounted and that'll give you more range (if you dispense with the surround). Remember, if you body mount, support the pickup at the mount point and don't just shove a piece of foam under the middle of the pickup and start cinching it down - that is unacceptable (squeal) and could damage the pickup even.

Boris is there anything you don't know about these things. I swear there are days when I believe you told Leo how to invent the Tele. I think we all appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share it with us.

I may have an analysis for you that has me stumped. My luthier friend just installed a set of Keystones and a 4-way in my CVC. The series position would not work with the typical wiring scheme that Acme and others distribute to go along with that Oak-Grigsby switch. (I had the same problem with it before turning it over to him) So he wired it in a completely unconventional manner in order to get it working.

Instead of the usual sequence with Series in the #4 position (closest to the neck) it's wired with Series in #1 position and then typical 3-way sequence from there north towards the neck, #2=Bridge, #3=Parallel, #4=Neck. Both of us are puzzled as to why this worked and the typical wiring scheme did not. If you have any ideas to share or would like to see a copy of the present wiring scheme I'd be pleased to show it to you and hear whatever insight you may have to offer.

Thanks.