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Old November 7th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Tone similar to Strat Quack on a Tele?

I have a need to get a tone similar to the "quack" pickup position on a Strat. Is there a way to get something like that on a Tele? I have a 4-position switch and think that the combination pickup position in serial mode would be the closest, but maybe you can get something similar with just the bridge pickup? I am trying to get a funky tone for a particular song and that "quack" Strat position seems like what they used on the song.

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Old November 7th, 2011, 04:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The closest you will probably get is what is typically called Half Out-of-Phase or HOoP. The pickups are in parallel, but out-of-phase with a cap in series with the neck pickup. Adding a resistor with the cap on the neck pup & also adding a resistor in series with the bridge pup gets a little more quack.

Here's a drawing of a 5-way Tele with that setup:

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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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+1 on what Phostenix said. He has a knack of figuring out just about any wiring you could desire. I'm thinking of even giving him a tricky strat wiring to figure out if he can!

Did you change that diagramm? I remember looking at it once before, and I don't recall any resistors. What do they do?
The baja comes with a half out of phase sound, but without resistors, so my curiosity is piqued!
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Old November 8th, 2011, 08:29 AM   #4 (permalink)
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The baja comes with a half out of phase sound, but without resistors, so my curiosity is piqued!
Half out of phase ? That's a new on me.

I think it's the resistor that takes some of the thinness out of it, so not so nasal-y you could say.

I think ??
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Old November 8th, 2011, 08:49 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I'm not sure how Phostenix has it wired, but in the baja it's actually only the extra capacitor that takes some of the thinness out in the parallel out of phase position.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 09:10 AM   #6 (permalink)
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The Baja does indeed come with the cap in series with the neck pickup in the parallel out of phase position.

But the cap doesn't bring much to the party as I found when I replaced the S-1 (4p2w) with a push-pull (because I wanted a nice smooth linear vol pot). Do note that the strat selector shown above is a 4p Super-Switch(?), you cannot insert the cap with a 2p2w p-p switch.

So then the easiest way to try-out is simply to flip the polarity of your existing neck pickup, it will need 3-wire conversion - cut the cold to case jumper and add a new case/shield ground wire - do not attempt to solder on the coil connections (it is a genuine and authentic pita visit your proctologist to resolder coil wires even for me, and I /can/ solder aluminium to stainless steel or glass)
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:14 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Did you change that diagram? I remember looking at it once before, and I don't recall any resistors. What do they do?
Yes, the resistors are a recent add. The Jerry Donahue Tele (and Peavey Omniac) have the added resistors. I did some testing a couple of weeks ago & found that the resistors did add a little bit of quack/chime to the half out-of-phase wiring, so I added them to my guitars. The value of the resistors also needed to be tweaked a little from pickup to pickup. I used 6.2K, 7.5K, and 8.2K in different guitars. The cap value also can be varied quite a bit to get different sounds. The Strat quack type sound, though, seems to be usually with the .01uF cap. I found that a small variation of the cap value will make a noticeable change to the quack, and a lot of my caps measured more than 10% under value - which matters in this application.
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Last edited by Phostenix; November 8th, 2011 at 01:24 PM.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I've been spending my free time the last couple of weeks working on a website to use as a library for my drawings. I have a lot more work to do on it, but the drawings that I wanted to post are all there. I still need to add descriptions to a lot of them.

I plan to keep adding to the site over time & add video demos, too.

Feel free to check it out, but be aware that it's not quite ready for prime time.

https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:37 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phostenix View Post
I've been spending my free time the last couple of weeks working on a website to use as a library for my drawings. I have a lot more work to do on it, but the drawings that I wanted to post are all there. I still need to add descriptions to a lot of them.

I plan to keep adding to the site over time & add video demos, too.

Feel free to check it out, but be aware that it's not quite ready for prime time.

https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/

Very cool stuff. Thanks for posting the link . . .
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'm not sure how Phostenix has it wired, but in the baja it's actually only the extra capacitor that takes some of the thinness out in the parallel out of phase position.

Oh ya that's right, it's a cap on the S1.

Some guys will put a resitor on a Tele bridge pup to take some of the ice pick out, that's why my head was on resistors, as well as Phostenix.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 10:54 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phostenix View Post
I've been spending my free time the last couple of weeks working on a website to use as a library for my drawings. I have a lot more work to do on it, but the drawings that I wanted to post are all there. I still need to add descriptions to a lot of them.

I plan to keep adding to the site over time & add video demos, too.

Feel free to check it out, but be aware that it's not quite ready for prime time.

https://sites.google.com/site/phostenixwiringdiagrams/
Thanks and nice to have then in one spot
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Old November 8th, 2011, 11:27 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Yes, the resistors are a recent add. The Jerry Donahue Tele (and Peavey Omniac) have the added resistors. I did some testing a couple of weeks ago & found that the resistors did add a little bit of quack/chime to the half out-of-phase wiring, so I added them to my huitars. The value of the resistors also needed to be tweaked a little from pickup to pickup. I used 6.2K, 7.5K, and 8.2K in different guitars. The cap value also can be varied quite a bit to get different sounds. The Strat quack type sound, though, seems to be usually with the .01uF cap. I found that a small varaiation of the cap value will make a noticeable change to the quack, and a lot of my caps measured more than 10% under value - which matters in this application.
Any chance you could provide a conventional circuit diagram please, as opposed to a picture layout schematic? - it is rather hard to figure out what the fixed R values are doing in the circuit.
It looks very interesting.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 01:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I love the HOoP with the .01 uf cap. It's quite quacky, and a decent substitute for the bridge/middle position of a Strat.
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Old November 8th, 2011, 02:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Phostenix, a correction on your diagram, the bridge pickup doesn't have the hole
between the G and D poles
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Old November 8th, 2011, 02:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Phostenix, a correction on your diagram, the bridge pickup doesn't have the hole
between the G and D poles
I didn't make that shape, Jason did.

I guess I could add that...


How's this?
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Old November 8th, 2011, 02:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Any chance you could provide a conventional circuit diagram please, as opposed to a picture layout schematic?
How 'bout this?

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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:23 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I didn't make that shape, Jason did.
Ha...I did that on purpose to see if anyone would notice...

By the way, thanks for posting your diagrams to a website!
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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My brain is having trouble with 1/2 out of phase. So is this one coil reverse polarity while out of phase with the other coil ?
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Old November 8th, 2011, 05:48 PM   #19 (permalink)
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My brain is having trouble with 1/2 out of phase. So is this one coil reverse polarity while out of phase with the other coil ?
In theory, two identical pickups with the same signal, wired out of phase would produce no sound at all. However, since the pickups are at different parts of the string, and built differently, what we hear are the differences that don't get cancelled out.
Now, if we attach a capacitor to one of the pickups to cut away a chunk of its signal, the pickups become even more "different" and less signal gets cancelled out, making for a more useful sound than pure out of phase.


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Old November 8th, 2011, 06:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
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My brain is having trouble with 1/2 out of phase. So is this one coil reverse polarity while out of phase with the other coil ?

Ya, that's why I put a question mark after that in my 1st post.

Half oop

I don't think electrically (reality) there would be such a thing with a set of pickups, I'm thinking it's just a tone term, meaning the sound is not really like REAL oop which sounds like crap.

So with either some cap or resistor wizardry, that change in tone of one of the pups in the set does the deal......or makes it a tone someone would want. Like on the Baja Tele, they put a .01F cap on the neck pup S1 point.

Is that the deal ??
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