Help! Problem with setting intonation

[jonkay1]

I've been setting intonation on my guitars for decades. Usually I never have a problem, but this time I'm having an odd problem. I'm trying to set the intonation on a Burns guitar, more or less a Tele-like instrument. When setting intonation, a pattern emerges as far as where the bridge saddles end up. There are slight differences from guitar to guitar, but generally they end up in roughly the same alignment. The high E string ends up being slightly forward of the B string. On this guitar, the 12th fret harmonic reads sharp against the fretted 12th note, no matter how far back I place the bridge saddle. I've got it as far back as it will go without removing the tension spring. The other five strings are behaving normally. Does anyone have any insight as to what could pausibly being going on? I am completely mystified.

[sjtalon]

bad string ....... improper nut slot ??

[jonkay1]

I've tried a couple of different strings, just in case. The nut slot had not been problematic before. How does one determine a problem with the nut slot? Does a sharp harmonic mean nut slot is too deep? Not deep enough?

[rolling56]

I always check the open string against the 12 fret note and not the harmonic........

[rewind]

Originally Posted by jonkay1

the 12th fret harmonic reads sharp against the fretted 12th note, no matter how far back I place the bridge saddle.

If the 12th fretted note is flat, the saddle needs to go forward.

[Steely_Ken]

I was stumped on a thing like this and a new string fixed it.

[Bartholomew3]

Originally Posted by rewind

If the 12th fretted note is flat, the saddle needs to go forward.

That's what I was going to say also...seem to be moving the saddle in the wrong direction according to the OP.

[spook777]

Originally Posted by Bartholomew3

That's what I was going to say also...seem to be moving the saddle in the wrong direction according to the OP.

Ditto. I tune the harmonic and adjust to the fretted. If the fretted is sharp, I move the saddle back. So if you are doing the inverse (tune to the fretted, and adjust the harmonic), you'd need to move the saddle forward.

[ASC67]

Originally Posted by rolling56

I always check the open string against the 12 fret note and not the harmonic........

Yep !

[jonkay1]

Rolling56, I too have always checked the open string against the 12th fret note. But just the other day I read an online article that said that was incorrect. I'm just repeatin' here, but the ear tends to hear the higher octave note as sharp. Tempered tuning was invented to counteract this. The article goes on to state that setting matching pitches of the same frequency (12th fretted, 12th fret harmonic) will yield better results. I've never done it that way before, and I got the order reversed. I was tuning the 12th fretted note and trying to set the 12th fret harmonic to the fretted note. It's the opposite, evidently. Can't say whether the results will be better the new way, but I will find out.

[JohnS]

Originally Posted by jonkay1

Rolling56, I too have always checked the open string against the 12th fret note. But just the other day I read an online article that said that was incorrect.

#1 stop reading stuff that goes against what you know works.

#2 If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

#3 you know better already.

Me, I've never done anything like this, ever.

[jonkay1]

I've found out that setting intonation by tuning the 12th fretted note to the 12th fret harmonic does indeed sound better than using the open string/12th fretted note method. The guitar sounds sweeter, more well-tempered. Usually the lower E and A strings would end up being slightly sharp, which made open chords like C Major and G Major sound out of tune. I would compensate by tuning them slightly flat. That problem seems to be resolved. I'm not sure why the 12th string harmonic works better. It seems that the open string and the 12th fret harmonic would have to match perfectly as far as being in tune with one another. But it seems to be good advice and I recommend it. Just sayin'.