Glendale, Callahan, Barden, Wilkinson bridges?

[MatsEriksson]

Hi folks!
Newbie here.

No matter how I tried to do a proper search on this forum, I have hard time coming to any consesus of yours, of which replacement bridge, AND saddles you should go for when replacing a Tele bridge. There are numerous posts though, but no conclusion, the threads just peter out it seems.

Glendale?
Callaham?
Joe Barden?
Wilkinson?

Something else that I've forgotten?

All 4, seems to have different advantages/disadvantages regarding intonation and tone. I've seen all YouTube links, but the compressed sound of anything on the net is pretty useless to me. See, I have already a Fender Custom Tele from mid 70's, and I want to keep that as original as possible, not tweaking it in anyway. However, recently I got hold of a very good copy or "lawsuit" Tele from Japanese brand GRECO, which I like very much, but I came over it at a bargain price, for me, and I don't mind if I could tweak it, or better it, in one way or another. The bridge and frets, and pu's are in the line for some improvement.

The Greco has originally 6 individual saddles, and while it intonates well, there's a certain sound in the three intonation saddles from the old days that I like but couldn't compromise in intonation, until now. I am thinking of replacing the pu's later on too, but that's another thread. I don't want to drill any new holes in it, save for pickguard, which can be changed out and put back again, just the same as pickups. The thing is, it should be no sweat into restoring it into original again, if I want it to, so no extra holes or carved up cavities are allowed. And ergonomically I would have free space for my palm mutes, which means, I would prefer a bridge without the ridges, or, what it is called...

Is it possible to mix and match from the 4 bridge manufacturers above? Say a plate from Joe Barden and compensated saddles from, say, Wilkinson, or Callaham?

[KokoTele]

Hi, and welcome to the TDPRI!

You won't find any consensus about which bridge is best. Different folks like different stuff for different reasons. They're all quality products.

The saddles and bridge plates can be mixed and matched. Shouldn't be a problem there.

[MatsEriksson]

Thanks for a very fast reply! However, I wonder, since the Greco is of Japanese origin, are the holes drilled in any way in the metric system, that won't fit American manufacturers inch system? Not spacing between the different holes as such, but the actual diameter of the holes?

And while they all have different properties, and sound to ones personal taste, I think intonation wise it can't be too individual. Either some of them will intonate properly or not. For the record I use 009-042 on Teles. All others are 010.

[KokoTele]

I don't know if there's enough info around on Greco guitars to tell whether or not it matches exactly to Fender's specs. Odds are good that it does, but I suspect this is something you'll have to find out by experiment.

As far as the intonation goes, I think you'll find that the vast majority of people who have used any of those saddle sets will say they intonate well. I don't know of anyone who's done a direct comparison, but I can say that I've worked on guitars with Glendale, Callaham, Allparts, and Stew Mac saddles, and all did a pretty good job. The Glendale and Callaham may have been slightly better, but I can't say for certain that it wasn't bias leading me to think so.

[MatsEriksson]

The thing is, I would want - for example - different material on saddles for the wound strings separate from the plain. And the big problem is that a wound D shares the same saddle as the plain G which it didn't from the start. Back inte the 50s D-G were wound.

I would want brass saddles on every PLAIN string, and Stainless Steel saddles on every wound. I do not know of any "split" saddles that the left string goes over SS, and the right string passes brass (or vice versa). This only leaves my option to go for 6 individual saddles anyway, in part due to this following ambiguos rap on Callahams site:

"...Sympathetic vibrations from one string can now influence the vibrations of another string causing dissonant overtones to occur that will drive you crazy, especially at high volume. It is this type of vibration that occurs on acoustic guitars, with their single saddle, that causes beat tones when certain chords are played and phasing problems on other chords. We purposely try to avoid firm large contact between our saddles for this reason..."


Then, why are strings put together in pairs, if they give sympathetic vibrations anyway? There's no one who's going to convince me that this three part saddles makes a difference from above statement. The two strings most affect each other, in that case, since they reside on the same saddle, just as two adjacent saddles touching each other firmly, and it can't be more firm than two strings sharing vibrations on the same saddle.

Above statement is a plug for going individual saddles anyway provided that they don't touch each other at all, don't you think?

So, for me, a bit ambigous rant, from, at least, Callaham. I've also read reviews on the Wilkinson bridge saddles, that the intonation got better (from original) but not as good as it will be with individual saddles. I don't care for keeping original look this time around, I have others that will do that. I can even think of Babicz Full Contact Hardware although I like simplicity and that one seems a bit unwieldy.

[John Thigpen]

I've heard great things about Glendale and Callaham bridges, but when I built my partscaster, I went with a Barden bridge, because it was well under half the price of those bridges, and the quality of the Barden is quite good.

I have a Wilkinson on another guitar, and although the saddle intonation is adjustable, the saddles are bulky. I'm seriously considering ordering some Rudders saddles to put on that guitar.

[MatsEriksson]

Thank you John, valuable info. Will check that one out. I see that Glendale is about the only one who offers "compound" sets of saddles, i e aluminium E/A and the rest is brass. I like that a lot. I've always have had problems with too much twang/treble spike in all plain strings, and the low/wound ones are too muddy, especially on teles with sc pu's. I want to find some way to even them out, and while Glendales at it, I want the split to occur between D and G string instead.

I even want the bridge pickup slanted the other way round, just like it would be on a lefty. To tame the icepick in your ear attack that high e can have sometimes. I've always though any sc pu is slanted the wrong way anyway, it should go further into the string, as the string goes thinner, and a thick e-string should be picked up as close to the bridge as possible for ultimate twang. But that's another topic. Let's stick to the bridges and saddles for now.

Also, as you told us John, the price is important. I do think SOME bridges are way out, and way too high, and extortionate. A piece of bent steel, couple of hundred bucks.

[toddfan]

When I built my Partscaster, I went with Wilkinson, with the 3 - compensated saddles.

Next time, I am going to (gasp ) go with a six saddle Gotoh.

I can get the intonation close with the compensated saddles, but would prefer to be able to get all strings intonation set individually.

I may even get a Gotoh, for this partscaster.

I doubt that I will be able to hear a difference.

[TNO]

I just put a Gotoh on my solid spruce esquire. It's a quality bridge and is resonant but it just doesn't seem as lively as the vintage style plate. It's coming off this weekend.

If I have to make a choice between tone or perfect intonation I'll go with tone every time.

The OP didn't have Rutters on his list but Marc makes great stuff and is great to deal with.

[StraightNeck]

Dont get stuck in illusions,no matter bridge you have,the skill of your playing
has a bigger part in da sound.IMHO.Play instead of "search" of the never ending rainbow.
The Wilkinson is just fine,the others is just ripping you off.

[MatsEriksson]

Thank you all for valuable info. I see there's a varied interpretation of yours, and philosophy. Some is sacrificing intonation in terms of tone, and the other way around. Now I have always leaned towards intontation first, tone second. But as the new companies seemed tp pop up in the last decade, they all seem to address this, that it should be possible to have both. I do have detected a certain SUBTLE flavor in original three saddle solution, in attack and genereal "spike" in treble of the tone, that is not that present on individual saddles. Of course. Everything affects everything and interacts with each things. They even have variations from brass, Aluminium, SS, and even Titanium. As I do have a mild case of nickel allergy, my strings are all SS all of the time, and some guitars has SS frets. So my leanings is towards some kind of SS bridge, at least, and the saddles...well, I don't think you touch them as much even when doing palm mutes. They can be mixed.

The main thing is that I want the split between say brass, and ss saddles to occur between the D-G string, i e between the wound and plain string, becuase it's there I detect a large jump - a too large jump - in timbre, actually. This is on most electric guitars actually. With that in mind, individual, or a Gotoh bridge will - perhaps - provide the best results.

I agree though ,that one should play and not bother too much. But after a while, all things starts to nag and get to me, anyway. That's why these forums and third party hardware provider exists. There's a need for it somehow, people have detected that "something has to be done about this..." :-) and some people do.

I don't get the price difference of Joe Bardens/Glendale/Callaham. They're all quality products, but I think some prices on an item that is basically a piece of polished junk, are just ripping you off. Also, I don't care if they look new, or distressed. Couldn't care less.

[krisls]

Like all this sort of thing the differences are subtle. Possibly even imperceptible in most cases. But...

I owned a Vintage '64 Tele that when I got it had one of those horrible 70's bridges on it. I too believed the 'intonation' thing that 6 is better. Maybe, but I can't pick it, anyway I went with a Japanese 6 saddle bridge, I think it was actually Tageuchi or something, but basically the same as a Gotoh. I later had a Am Std that I put String Saver saddles on, worked on that guitar and setup, for me.

I recently built a parts guitar essentially Vintage style, cheap V style bridge with Callaham Enh Brass. Were I richer I'd have gone the Rutters cut side bridge with his or the Callaham saddles. Can I pick a diff between the old 6 or the current 3? Not really, neither are perfect if you want to play with the minute variations up and down the neck, but in the real world of playing...shrug. Music made by a human being will be imperfect in some way, that's where it breathes and lives.

Different materials, brass, steel, whatever will make some difference so that's a personal preference thing. Trying them all might get fiddly and expensive though. Best advice, get a general feel for what will suit you and go with it. If you are a constant seeker of perfection you are in for a long search. Not sure any of us are completely immune though.

Good luck.

Kristina

[MatsEriksson]

That's what I think too Krisis. I don't know the brand or make of the 6 str individual saddle system that's on my Greco right now. It's not cheap pot iron or something that melts just if you look at it.

But already in this thread, I've got more tips, and hints and caveats from you, than looking it up, and searching the forum first. And this is why I don't have the amount of money and time to go really into trying them all out. That's why I am asking around here, just to avoid this tedious and very expensive process.

[MatsEriksson]

For example, the first thing that annoyed me about any original Tele bridge is the ridges (to be able to hold the ashtray), it just got in the way for MY hybrid picking and palm mute, and high pinched finger/nail harmonics. So I thought "hmmm... there must be a solution to this". And on it went, everending quest at the end of the rainbow. :-)

[MatsEriksson]

A question to all interested parties in this thread:

1. Has there ever been any TWO PART bridge/saddle system that splits up just between the wound and plain strings?

You see, I think the three part saddle system is from when the G were wound too. Then the three saddle system makes sense. But not today, with modern strings, and a plain g-string. If the plain saddle of holding three strings should be slanted back, and put the plain g back the furthest, you could start over again with the d string pushing it a bit more in front, forward, than it is possible today, were both g and d shares the same saddle. It just can't be slanted that much, and to that space.

Then the other saddle would be slanted way back again, so the thick E is pulled the furthest back too. I think that "alignment" would be better for intonation purposes, and you could get one in SS and one in brass, if you'd like.

I would rather go with such a system, than what's around today. If you look at certain acoustics (Takamine) thay also have split bridges just like that, making the plain B-E string reside on a different bridge (saddle really), than the rest of the wound strings, and most g-strings are wound on acoustics anyway.

[terrybellcountr]

Din signatur låter svensk. Är det så? Har bytt stall på två tele förra året. Har lite kunskap om detta.

[MatsEriksson]

Ja, jag är svensk, om du tittar i LOCATION fältet, är det ganska uppenbart. men skicka isåfall PM, det går väl? Yes, I am swedish, but please send PM instead, if you want to talk in native language. It says so in the LOCATION field right under my nick. Location: Malmoe, Sweden.

[MatsEriksson]

Originally Posted by toddfan

When I built my Partscaster, I went with Wilkinson, with the 3 - compensated saddles.

Next time, I am going to (gasp ) go with a six saddle Gotoh.

I can get the intonation close with the compensated saddles, but would prefer to be able to get all strings intonation set individually.

I may even get a Gotoh, for this partscaster.

I doubt that I will be able to hear a difference.

How about the Babicz Full Contact Hardware?

Ok, they may have their fair share of marketing BS, but reviewers CLAIM that this is the closest 6 str individual saddle system that resembles the old three part saddles the best, tone and timbre and sustain. I can't tell, haven't tried it. Seems too unwieldy to set up, and cluttered. I am all for simplicity.

[KokoTele]

I've never seen a 4 saddle bridge like you're describing. Acoustics that have a 2-piece saddle do it only for improved intonation, it has nothing to do with tone.

Babicz: Anyone who says this bridge gets close to a traditional 3 saddle bridge tone is showing their inability to tell what a traditional 3 saddle bridge sounds like. Even Babicz doesn't think they sound like a traditional bridge.

I posted elsewhere on the TDPRI after I tried a pair of guitars at their store with the bridge installed. I was unimpressed. To their credit, after someone called their attention to my post, the owner contacted me and offered to send a bridge to try out again to see if he could change my mind. He thought the ones I tried out may have been prototypes or something and not the final version.

He seemed like a nice guy and I told him that I'd be happy to try it out again, and even have some of my Telecaster buddies try it out too. That was a month or so ago and he hasn't sent it yet, so I can't say anything else about it.

Back to your original questions: It seems that you're making this process much more complicated than it needs to be, and that each time you get closer to a solution, you lead yourself away from it.

[steveintampa]

The Babicz is nice to intonate a tele for studio line in use, but it is a big twang reducer.