Do pickups wear out?

[wintergalt]

Hi all,

I was wondering about electric components (pickups, pots) and whether they wear out after years of use. Do they? Is tone affected in any way by the amount of hours a guitar has been played? I'm only interested in finding out about electric components, not fretboard, frets, etc.

Thanks!

[Jonny_Quest]

I have a RIC 4001 bass I bought in the 1970's.....I haven't notice any degradation whatsoever. Still sound great.

[Dwills94]

pots definitely wear out but that is from mechanical wear from use not from hours played

[Rod Parsons]

Magnets do luz power a bit over the years and some say older pickups sound better. Less pull on the strings, a bit less attack. I'm sure others may think more attack is better, thus the love of more powerfull magnets. In my mind I would think that alnico fives might sound a little more like alnico threes, but it might take a decade or decades to notice a real difference. Just my opinion.

[Mike Simpson]

I have a 1936 Gibson ES150 and the pickup works fine...

[Colt W. Knight]

Yeah, electronic componets age and corrode over time. Wire connections break loose, sweat can can cause chemical reations and eat away at components. Agressive palm muting can damage and warp pickups.

So as things begin to age, the tone does change.

Listen to raw, gritty tone on this '52.

[cband7]

To quote Neil Young: "Rust never sleeps". Think of your strings if you don't wipe them down. Corrosion takes a long while (years) to degrade the components and REALLY long if you clean everything occasionally. Magnets degrade very slowly. It takes a good ear to notice. I've seen companies state that they "age" the magnets to make the tone smoother - to me that's like saying I painted my car with twenty coats and then sanded off eighteen to make it look better. Magnets are manufactured; you can vary the end strength by any amount you want.

And, replacement components are cheap unless it's a collectors item: in that case you shouldn't be playing it and the major corrosion issue is when you take it out and drool on it.

EDIT: If you play for a living your equipment is like a good pair of sneakers. They feel the best and work the best just before they give up the ghost. Leo designed the Tele and Strat to be cheap, rugged and above all Easy To Repair.
Two out of three ain't bad: Fender sort of bit the big one in the 'cheap' department but we have Squier for that....



.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by wintergalt

Hi all,

I was wondering about electric components (pickups, pots) and whether they wear out after years of use. Do they? Is tone affected in any way by the amount of hours a guitar has been played? I'm only interested in finding out about electric components, not fretboard, frets, etc.

Thanks!

Pickups sure do...That's how the Rewinders make a large part of there living.

That's also why I think Folks that pay Crazy $$$ for a Vintage Original Pickup are kinda Nuts....they are just buyin an expensive "Time Bomb"...they do go Dead.

[Twinkie]

Some magnet structures loose strength over a period of the years. However, this may depend on the exposure. I had a Charlie Christian PU in my 52 ES 350 that never sounded right. I don't know who put in the guitar and when, but it sounded like poop. Not to mention these pickups happen to be some of the most noisy transducers ever invented for the guitar. I wired in a dummy coil that solved a lot of the noise problem, but I was never able to get a nice tone out of that pickup. After doing some reading up on the history of these pickups I learned that they are notorious for their magnets loosing power over time. Eventually I replaced the pickup with a custom ordered Seymour Duncan (himself) custom made Christian "Stack" humbucker. I was a big improvement.

Another case of component failure I experienced was years of built up corrosion in the pots of my 72 Les Paul. For the longest time I couldn't figure out what the problem was. I replaced the pickups and it still sounded like the tone was under a blanket. After I replace the pots, BAM! The problem was fixed. I had my old friend back.

So there are times when parts decompose and get old; sometimes for better, sometimes for worse.

[Tele-Meister]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

Listen to raw, gritty tone on this '52.

Sure is gritty. If I had a Dollar for every Kilobyte that was recorded with, I'd have one dollar.




Anyway, YES, they the magnets will "Weaken" as they age. Alot of companies do this on purpose to give it a mellower, Sweeter, Warmer tone (i.e. Seymour Duncan Antiquity's). However, if a pickup is taken care of, this should be about the most that could happen to it.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Tele-Meister

However, if a pickup is taken care of, this should be about the most that could happen to it.

Sorry, but I would disagree w/ your statement...see attached PDF

dead Fender pups copy.pdf

[Guitarmadcat]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

Sorry, but I would disagree w/ your statement...see attached PDF

Attachment 89499

Surely, just 'someone's' personal opinion/ experience. And exactly what "chemical reaction" is he/ she talking about? And how caused? And what about the thousands of '50s Fenders still being collected and used today?

Maybe what they're saying is true and I'm certainly not saying they're wrong out of hand but surely, one cannot make such sweeping statements without explanation or proof?

[polkat]

Pickups made with poorer magnets may loose some strength over the (long) years but it may not be noticable, and physics tells us that a magnet will only loose it's pull if there is a source nearby to pull the magnatism. Solder joints may go cold (if they are done wrong to begin with). Pickups (even hot rod pickups) don't put out enough voltage to damage the windings. So other then what I mentioned above, NO, pickups don't wear out. Like Mike's story above, I played a '48 Broadcaster once with the original pickups. Sounded great.

[polkat]

Pickups made with poorer magnets may loose some strength over the (long) years but it may not be noticable, and physics tells us that a magnet will only loose it's pull if there is a source nearby to pull the magnatism. Rewinders make money on physically damaged pickups and because people want them hot rodded!

Solder joints may go cold (if they are done wrong to begin with). Pickups (even hot rod pickups) don't put out enough voltage to damage the windings. So other then what I mentioned above, NO, pickups don't wear out. Like Mike's story above, I played a '48 Broadcaster once with the original pickups. Sounded great.

[steveintampa]

A magnet attracts small pieces of an ferrous material and it sticks. This will cause an uneven surface that collects dust, which collects moisture. This builds up over time, and depending on the humidity, use and and sweat factor can degrade components and alter the magnetic field of the pickup.

For a non moving part, the electromagnetic field is actually pretty lively.

[CustFan]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

Sorry, but I would disagree w/ your statement...see attached PDF

Attachment 89499

This is definately true. I've bought a Fender Telecaster bridge pup from e-bay. The seller had replaced it about a year earlier and had decided to sell. Unfortunately he didn't check the impedance and it was o/c and u/s when it arrived with me. On investigation the inner windings (in contact with the magnets) had corroded through (probably due to sweat ingress and damage to the insulation). I was refunded so didn't loose out

I also had a MM screamer bridge pup that failed in a curious way - I'm not sure how common this is though. After a number of years the sound became very muted (almost strangled) but the impedance still checked out ok. I can only assume that the insulation had failed and that some of the turns were shorting to each other resulting in shorted turns in the pup. The presence of shorted turns can seriously affect the inductance and Q of the pup and hence the really naff sound that resulted. Beware when buying second hand pups - even if they are advertised with the dc resistance shown on a connected meter!

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

Sorry, but I would disagree w/ your statement...see attached PDF

Attachment 89499

+1, a lot more can go wrong than just a magnet.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Tele-Meister

Sure is gritty. If I had a Dollar for every Kilobyte that was recorded with, I'd have one dollar.
.

If you want to be smart about it...
1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes
1 megabyte = 1024 kilobytes

My video is 24.2 megabytes (24.2*1024) = 24,780.80

So ~25K$ wouldn't be too shabby.

[Ricky D.]

Originally Posted by Guitarmadcat

Surely, just 'someone's' personal opinion/ experience. And exactly what "chemical reaction" is he/ she talking about? And how caused? And what about the thousands of '50s Fenders still being collected and used today?

Maybe what they're saying is true and I'm certainly not saying they're wrong out of hand but surely, one cannot make such sweeping statements without explanation or proof?

I hear what you are saying, but that's not just anybody's personal opinion. That's Mellecaster, who has been fixing guitars for a living for a very long time and has an impeccable reputation. When you are learning from the experiences of others, it pays to know who to listen to. Many of the posters here just repeat things they've read and heard. When Mellecaster speaks to a problem, he's talking about something he's seen on his workbench.

BTW, the chemical reaction would be galvanic corrosion. Disimilar metals and a conductive solution, same principle as a battery. A little sweat wicks into the windings and finds a flaw in the wire's coating. Some of those thousands of old Fenders will break down this way eventually, I guess. Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Guitarmadcat

Surely, just 'someone's' personal opinion/ experience. And exactly what "chemical reaction" is he/ she talking about? And how caused? And what about the thousands of '50s Fenders still being collected and used today?

Maybe what they're saying is true and I'm certainly not saying they're wrong out of hand but surely, one cannot make such sweeping statements without explanation or proof?

There are also thousands of Fenders that have worn out or have dead pickups. Its just like cars, some go 60K miles, and some go 300k miles.

[telex76]

I will say that not all human beings have the same quality of sweat. I can play my guitar a couple of hours and put it up without wiping it down and the strings are fine the next day. My son can play a half hour and if he doesn't wipe it down, the next day the strings feel like rusty saw blades.

I'm sure the pickups on his guitar have to be in worse shape than mine.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by telex76

I will say that not all human beings have the same quality of sweat. I can play my guitar a couple of hours and put it up without wiping it down and the strings are fine the next day. My son can play a half hour and if he doesn't wipe it down, the next day the strings feel like rusty saw blades.

I'm sure the pickups on his guitar have to be in worse shape than mine.

+1,

Same goes for the finish. Some guys sweat the equivalent of acetone, and can strip the paint off a guitar in no time.

[telex76]

Originally Posted by Guitarmadcat

Surely, just 'someone's' personal opinion/ experience. And exactly what "chemical reaction" is he/ she talking about? And how caused? And what about the thousands of '50s Fenders still being collected and used today?

Maybe what they're saying is true and I'm certainly not saying they're wrong out of hand but surely, one cannot make such sweeping statements without explanation or proof?

You can't deny it unless you have proof either. What about the thousands of dead pickups and pots that were sent to the junkyard years ago.

Try playing your guitar everyday for 5 years without changing the strings and see what shape they are in. To a lesser extent the pickups and pots are getting in the same shape.

[Guitarmadcat]

Originally Posted by telex76

You can't deny it unless you have proof either. What about the thousands of dead pickups and pots that were sent to the junkyard years ago.

Try playing your guitar everyday for 5 years without changing the strings and see what shape they are in. To a lesser extent the pickups and pots are getting in the same shape.

If you'd bothered to read my post correctly, you'll see I'm NOT denying it.
I'm simply asking for evidence as the statement was made as a matter of fact.

And no, I never hear about the thousands (really?) of dead pickups and pots that have been junked. Nor the thousands of vintage guitars (are you really sure, Colt?) that have been junked too. This can only be the result of misuse and poor/ non-existent maintenance. I only know of the thousands that are alive and rocking.

And how am I to know who wrote that attachment of Mellecaster's when he didn't even bother saying it was his own findings/ writings?

Sorry, but I'm not psychic!

Seems like some of you guys are operating a 'closed shop' here. The Tele-mafia, indeed?!

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Guitarmadcat

I'm simply asking for evidence as the statement was made as a matter of fact.



And how am I to know who wrote that attachment of Mellecaster's when he didn't even bother saying it was his own findings/ writings?

Sorry, but I'm not psychic!

Seems like some of you guys are operating a 'closed shop' here. The Tele-mafia, indeed?!

It was pulled from the following Site

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/index.html

And rest assured there is no "Mafia" here...but you do seem to have an ongoing problem w/ me ?....and that's OK...I Yam what I Yam....

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Guitarmadcat

If you'd bothered to read my post correctly, you'll see I'm NOT denying it.
I'm simply asking for evidence as the statement was made as a matter of fact.

And no, I never hear about the thousands (really?) of dead pickups and pots that have been junked. Nor the thousands of vintage guitars (are you really sure, Colt?) that have been junked too. This can only be the result of misuse and poor/ non-existent maintenance. I only know of the thousands that are alive and rocking.

And how am I to know who wrote that attachment of Mellecaster's when he didn't even bother saying it was his own findings/ writings?

Sorry, but I'm not psychic!

Seems like some of you guys are operating a 'closed shop' here. The Tele-mafia, indeed?!

Yups, thousands of dead vintage pickups out there. Its not a rare occurence or a conspiracy. A guitar is a tool, and like any tool it is going to wear out eventually. Taking care of your tools drastically increases the life.

[ac15]

Originally Posted by Mike Simpson

I have a 1936 Gibson ES150 and the pickup works fine...

Lucky you.......(not because your pickup still works, but because you have an old "Charlie Christian" model Gibson.)

[Guitarmadcat]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

It was pulled from the following Site

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/index.html

And rest assured there is no "Mafia" here...but you do seem to have an ongoing problem w/ me ?....and that's OK...I Yam what I Yam....

What on earth gives you that idea? Seriously? I honestly don't know how you can misconstrue what I've said as having a problem with you - ongoing at that?

I respect anyone who KNOWS his stuff. No problem.

[moonshiner]

Don't forget that most older fender pickups were lacquer potted which is not waterproof while wax potting is. Older pickups are more susceptible to rust and corrosion over time...

All electronics can die... the methods depend upon the object.

[fezz parka]

One thing that keeps us winders in business is the way people handle a pickup when installing or removing. THESE THINGS ARE DELICATE LITTLE BUGGERS!

[wintergalt]

Thanks all for replying.

[Tele-Meister]

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

1 kilobyte = 1024 bytes
1 megabyte = 1024 kilobytes

My video is 24.2 megabytes (24.2*1024) = 24,780.80

Then why does the quality suck so hard?

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Tele-Meister

Then why does the quality suck so hard?

Its a home movie shot on a digital camera, not a taping at Austin City Limits. I can't afford to have Steven Spielberg follow me around, and produce my recordings whenever I get a chance to play a cool guitar.

[bluemud928]

i've read that the alnico types definitely lose magnetism over time...duncan "ages" some of his pups, at least he claimed so years ago...i don't think ceramics are affected in the same way

[Gnobuddy]

All the fine details aside, there is no manufactured object (whether manufactured by nature or human beings) that does not age and deteriorate over time. Even entire planets and moons age (our moon wasn't cratered when it was new). Mountains age and wear down; every living thing ages and eventually wears out; and certainly all our human creations - from the most durable carved stone to the most fragile ice sculpture - age and wear out too.

As for pickups, while I have no personal experience with fifty-year-old guitar pickups, it isn't hard to think of many ageing mechanisms. Permanent magnets stay magnetised only as long as the tiny internal magnetic domains in the material stay aligned. Vibration, thermal energy (heat), external magnetic fields, and chemical deterioration (rusting, etc) can all weaken magnets over time.

The insulation on pickup wire is varnish. We all know paints and varnishes age and chemically break down as the decades go by (why else do you have to repaint your house every so often?). Bare copper corrodes quite fast - hair thin 42 gauge copper wire used for winding pickups won't last long if the varnish breaks down and allows oxygen and moisture to reach the metal.

Similarly, the iron in the pickup will slowly combine with oxygen from the air and turn to rust. We all know that well protected (painted or coated) iron and steel in a dry atmosphere can last a very long time, but certainly vintage guitars in humid or salty areas (by the beach) will suffer from corrosion sooner or later.

Inevitably, then, one day all the parts and assemblies in those vintage first electric guitars will break down, wear out, and fall apart.

How soon? I don't know. Electric guitars are fairly new creations in terms of human history. The first vacuum triode (De Forest's "Audion") wasn't invented until 1907, and the first experimental electrified guitars and basses we know about date from roughly fifteen to twenty years later. So the oldest electric guitars we know of are still only about eighty or ninety years old. That's not very old compared to the history of human-made artifacts, or even musical instruments - there are bone flutes that date back 40,000 years (
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...nstrument.html )

Still, I'm betting many of those experimental 1920's electric guitars are already long gone, and given another couple centuries or so of ageing, I expect the only surviving early production electric guitars will be in climate-controlled museums. Electric guitars being a lot less durable than a bone flute, I'm pretty sure that 40,000 years from now there will be no remaining twentieth-century guitars left!

That said, the DIY guitar I built in the mid 1980's has aged a lot better than I have in the quarter century since then!

-Gnobuddy

[Guitarmadcat]

Thank you very much, Gnobuddy for such an enlightening explanation, related in such a friendly, non-condescending manner. You're a breath of fresh air.

[nadzab]

Originally Posted by Tele-Meister

Then why does the quality suck so hard?

I thought the quality was just fine for what it was. In fact, I'm going to go watch it again, right now...

[Gnobuddy]

Guitarmadcat, thank you for the kind words! I was in the middle of kicking myself for not getting some things done today when I read your post. You have no idea how much you just cheered me up!

-Gnobuddy

[Guitarmadcat]

Originally Posted by Gnobuddy

Guitarmadcat, thank you for the kind words! I was in the middle of kicking myself for not getting some things done today when I read your post. You have no idea how much you just cheered me up!

-Gnobuddy

That's very humbling of you to say that. People are so quick to complain but very reticent to praise.

[Manolete]

Originally Posted by Jonny_Quest

I have a RIC 4001 bass I bought in the 1970's.....I haven't notice any degradation whatsoever. Still sound great.

It seems the earlier "horseshoe" Rickenbacker pickups might lose their magnetic strength over time. Chris Squire's much modded RM1999 had do be remagnetised. However back then the pickup cover was also magnetised and integral in the functioning of the pickup, so maybe that is part of the reason.

I also read Jerry Garcia reckoned pickups lost their strength over time. He was using quite high output pickups and boosters with hifi amps so I guess he would hear it more than most!