5 Bolt Neck

[Al Watsky]

Originally Posted by Tele-Meister

A OTHER QUESTION.


Since we're talkin' 'bout 'ose dang ol' neck pockets man, I best bring this issue up...


Have any of you had experience with sanding the finish OFF the neck butt where it joins the neck pocket?

Would the durability of the neck be sacrificed with this method?

Alot of people say this increases sustain. ect.

The most straight forward thing to do with a guitar is tackle the basic problem , then see if there's a change.
So I would say do what needs doing to make the neck stable , if the tone or "sustain" is better , thats nice.
I would not recommend removing the finish from the pocket or heel but it is allowable to level both the pocket and the heel to insure the stability of the joint.
Use common sense if its "vintage" your hands are tied.
Folks would make 3 "bolt" neck 4 "bolt" all the time back in the day.
You can help these precious 3 bolt POS's out by shimming the 2 circular inserts to be perfectly flush with both surfaces. Its a non-mod , just a matter of using some shim material that does not require gluing. Sheet goods mostly of one sort or another. Also not using the neck tilt and shimming the heel "if" necessary. Make sure your hold down screws for the plates are snug.
You can remove the "floor log label" with naptha and level the poly if the problem is slight ,clean and buff but avoid going through the finish and replace the label.
Obsessive but you can do that. Then the guitar looks stock, doesn't look buggered. Personally I don't love those labels. They still use em' and I still don't like em'.
Then set it back up and its gonna be better.
If the pocket is uneven which is often from the grain in ash not being filled or from crude fiber loss, your stuck with the 70's guitars these days 'cause folks have started paying real money for those guitars. I guess in the day the factory figured it was covered up so its OK. Wrong.
The only thing wrong with bullet truss rods is that they have one pernicious failure mode which is fiber compression at the heel anchor. But thats a tale for another day.
Its always best to tread lightly, if you leave footprints on a guitar they will lead back to you.

[Chet Johnson]

Originally Posted by Tele-Meister

@Chet Johnson
So you have had experience with those Neck-Insert-bolts? And you do feel like it helped out the sustain?

Yes, I've put them in 25 or more necks. I won't build a bolt on instrument without them now.

The sustain gain is incredible. Each screw has about 400lb of clamping power. The neck is clamped in tighter than wood screws can, and the "gap " between the neck and pocket is pulled in almost like a single piece of wood. The improved resonance is huge. I play my main electric unplugged at home all the time to practice, and it rings forever.

[winny pooh]

Originally Posted by Chet Johnson

Yes, I've put them in 25 or more necks. I won't build a bolt on instrument without them now.

The sustain gain is incredible. Each screw has about 400lb of clamping power. The neck is clamped in tighter than wood screws can, and the "gap " between the neck and pocket is pulled in almost like a single piece of wood. The improved resonance is huge. I play my main electric unplugged at home all the time to practice, and it rings forever.

Explain something to me. If you can only tighten a screw to a point just before the point at which the metal on the screw will strip from overtightening, then how can you make the joint tighter than with a woodscrew joint? (because that failure is common, not screws in the neck stripping/breaking the neck heel wood)

Are you saying these insert screws have super hard screw heads that can be tightened more than regular screws?

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, because what you said (especially the tonal improvements) sounds a bit ridiculous otherwise.

[Tele-Meister]

Yeah Chet, Explain...EXPLAIN YOURSELF!



I'm sorry I had to do it

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by winny pooh

Explain something to me. If you can only tighten a screw to a point just before the point at which the metal on the screw will strip from overtightening, then how can you make the joint tighter than with a woodscrew joint? (because that failure is common, not screws in the neck stripping/breaking the neck heel wood)

Are you saying these insert screws have super hard screw heads that can be tightened more than regular screws?

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, because what you said (especially the tonal improvements) sounds a bit ridiculous otherwise.

HUH. Wood screws will strip the wood in the heel of the neck far before they will strip the threads of the screws.

[Chet Johnson]

Originally Posted by winny pooh

Explain something to me. If you can only tighten a screw to a point just before the point at which the metal on the screw will strip from overtightening, then how can you make the joint tighter than with a woodscrew joint? (because that failure is common, not screws in the neck stripping/breaking the neck heel wood)

Are you saying these insert screws have super hard screw heads that can be tightened more than regular screws?

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, because what you said (especially the tonal improvements) sounds a bit ridiculous otherwise.

Sorry for the delay, I just did two 16 hour shifts at the ole' sweatshop and my phone wouldnt log in to the forum.

Ok, don't over think this:
The inserts are not a moving part . They mount in an enlarged hole, tapped to a much larger thread than and typical neck wood screw. I use a 5/16-18 outside thread on mine, plus a threadlocking epoxy. They are in very stationary.

Then the machine screw threads into a threaded internal hole, 8-32 in the ones that I use. These threads are steel on the insert, and stainless steel on my screws. They are much much stronger than even maple's density. I've never seen one strip before a tension that wood will.

The machine screw threads into a very solid threaded insert , the clamping is a perpendicular motion, not the screwing of the insert.

I've seen neck plates imprint into the body, and heard wood creaking if overtightened. I have seen it best in guitars that I first had wood screws in , then installed them and heard the difference.

You can flag the idea in text all you wish, But my advice would be to put inserts in a guitar thats not your favorite to try them. Once you prove or disprove what I just said, move on to your favorite guitars, or never use them again. Have fun.

On a separate note, i was originally turned on to inserts and the benefits by a VERY well known and credible luthier who is putting them in ALL of his $3,000 + guitars. Danny gatton, Jay Monterose, Dan Erlewine and several other notable folks also seemed to love them.

[DOGMA Dunn]

Originally Posted by KevinB

Well, close! But 4 of those 7 screws play no part in holding the neck to the body. Here's what it really looks like...

Thanks for pointing that out. I stand corrected it's the one bold design.
Looks like 4 screws and one bolt holds the neck to the pocket. 2 large 2 small and the bolt.

[Colt W. Knight]

Originally Posted by Chet Johnson

Sorry for the delay, I just did two 16 hour shifts at the ole' sweatshop and my phone wouldnt log in to the forum.

Ok, don't over think this:
The inserts are not a moving part . They mount in an enlarged hole, tapped to a much larger thread than and typical neck wood screw. I use a 5/16-18 outside thread on mine, plus a threadlocking epoxy. They are in very stationary.

Then the machine screw threads into a threaded internal hole, 8-32 in the ones that I use. These threads are steel on the insert, and stainless steel on my screws. They are much much stronger than even maple's density. I've never seen one strip before a tension that wood will.

The machine screw threads into a very solid threaded insert , the clamping is a perpendicular motion, not the screwing of the insert.

I've seen neck plates imprint into the body, and heard wood creaking if overtightened. I have seen it best in guitars that I first had wood screws in , then installed them and heard the difference.

You can flag the idea in text all you wish, But my advice would be to put inserts in a guitar thats not your favorite to try them. Once you prove or disprove what I just said, move on to your favorite guitars, or never use them again. Have fun.

On a separate note, i was originally turned on to inserts and the benefits by a VERY well known and credible luthier who is putting them in ALL of his $3,000 + guitars. Danny gatton, Jay Monterose, Dan Erlewine and several other notable folks also seemed to love them.

Bill Crook uses them as well.