intonation

[ricksconnected]

when you set intonation on your guitar do you tune to the attack or the decay and why?

[iblastoff]

decay. the attack will always be very very slightly sharper and then fade into the decay (aka your sustain which you'd probably want to be in tune)

[ricksconnected]

and the decay will eventually be flat.

[Thinlineggman]

Wherever the needle stays the longest.

[ricksconnected]

your right, but even the better tuners are only accurate to within a few cents.

[RussBert]

I use my Turbo Tuner...it's a very, very good tuner :)

[HonenShonin]

Decay mainly, but the low E goes sharp enough on the attack that I undertune the decay slightly to compensate. Works a treat!

[kmaster]

The string will settle into a pitch within milliseconds. Tune to that "decay."

I find it's best to set intonation fretting the 5th and 17th frets and matching their pitches (an octave apart, of course). The more precise a tuner you can procure (I use a Peterson Stomp Classic myself, accurate to within .1 cents) the better.

Why the 5th and 17th frets? Well, in my experience, doing the normal method of open and 12th fret (or 12th harmonic and 12th fretted, or any combination thereof) makes the full length of the string part of the equation, but math, physics, our ear, and the fretboard layout do not always agree. Also, using the open string allows for inconsistencies at the nut to affect intonation; essentially, if the nut is not exactly perfectly cut, it's messing with intonation (meaning part of setting intonation is getting a good nut job)!

I find that using the 5th and 17th frets keeps things set by 4ths just like the guitar strings, removes the inconsistencies of the nut, removes the inconsistencies created by the physics of an open string, and centers the area of greatest intonation in the middle of the fretboard (thinking lengthwise). That way instead of setting the intonation to match at fret 12, you're giving it 2 anchor points, 5 and 17, which (hopefully) means that deviations away from absolutely perfect intonation only go so far.

That's probably more than you'd asked for, but it's 1:30 AM...

[ricksconnected]

preach on kmaster! hows the weather up in athens? im not to far from ya.

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by ricksconnected

and the decay will eventually be flat.

Yes, it will eventually be flat compared to the attack not compared to being in tune or not. I mean it doesn't keep going flat indefinitely. So just get the decay in tune and it won't go any flatter than that, right?

I'm inclined to tune to the decay as well. It just makes more sense to me since the attack lasts only a fraction of a second and the decay is more often allowed to sustain much longer when we're actually playing.

[iblastoff]

Originally Posted by ricksconnected

and the decay will eventually be flat.

why would it eventually be flat? it'd be IN tune.

[limbe]

Like Kmaster getting the 5th and 17th to same pitch an octave apart.

[piece of ash]

iblastoff,

Notes are sharp when you first pick them because the string is stretched out, this increases the tension, and therefore the pitch. As the vibrations settle down, the string becomes shorter, the tension goes down, and so does the pitch.

kmaster,

Brilliant... just brilliant... get the d*mn nut out of the equation. Why din't I think of that???

[BajaDerek]

I think the new TC ELEC. PolyTune is within .5 cent.

[iblastoff]

Originally Posted by piece of ash

iblastoff,

Notes are sharp when you first pick them because the string is stretched out, this increases the tension, and therefore the pitch. As the vibrations settle down, the string becomes shorter, the tension goes down, and so does the pitch.

kmaster,

Brilliant... just brilliant... get the d*mn nut out of the equation. Why din't I think of that???

um thats what i said in my very first post and thus why you should tune TO the decay, not the attack. the pitch isn't turning flat compared to the note, its pitching into tune.

now if you tuned it at the ATTACK note then yes of course then it'd turn flat once it leveled out.

[CrisHendrix]

Originally Posted by kmaster

The string will settle into a pitch within milliseconds. Tune to that "decay."

I find it's best to set intonation fretting the 5th and 17th frets and matching their pitches (an octave apart, of course). The more precise a tuner you can procure (I use a Peterson Stomp Classic myself, accurate to within .1 cents) the better.

Am I wrong in thinking this would work better if you're not playing a lot of open chords? Fretting is part of playing style, and this would take that into consideration.. but then the open strings may ring a little flat

[kmaster]

Originally Posted by CrisHendrix

Am I wrong in thinking this would work better if you're not playing a lot of open chords? Fretting is part of playing style, and this would take that into consideration.. but then the open strings may ring a little flat

I play tons of open chords!

In my experience, fretting strings sharpens them a little bit. Playing strings makes each note even sharper for a little, but open strings play sharp and then pull flat to a greater extent than do fretted strings since they are longer.

Intonate each string via the 5th and 17th method. But then tune each string to the 12th fret harmonic, which is the true pitch of the string one octave up. This gives a very balanced approach to intonation and tuning which makes fretted strings play very nicely against open strings. One of my favorite things to do is play cowboy chords up 12 frets...using this method, it is just as in tune!