Fret Levelin' Yer Tele 101 thread-- question

[appar111]

In post #7 on Ron Kirn's "Fret Levelin' Yer Tele" thread:

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech...ele-101-a.html

Ron mentions that after the frets are crowned, he takes some 320 grit and goes along the length of each fret to get a matte appearance. Since you'd have to do each fret at a time, wouldn't there be a chance that by using 320 grit on each fret, you'd run the risk of making some frets just slightly lower than others?

Is this step necessary after the fret crowning? Or would a higher grit paper be a better choice so as not to get the fret a hair too low at this stage (for the beginning fret leveler?). Would micro mesh be ok at this point?

I know Ron knows his stuff on this, but he's also developed a really good technique and feel for it. This is the only stage of the leveling/crowning process that makes me a little nervous.

I just bought a 2 x 36" piece of marble that I'm going to have a buddy cut in half for me, and will be ordering a roll of 180 grit sandpaper to make a fret leveler, and a long ruler that I can dremel and use as a fretboard level.

I'm gettin' excited about taking a couple of my cheapie beater guitars and improving their playability!

[Commodore 64]

After the crowning, I pretty much just start playing. The frets don't shine, and bends feel a little gritty (but sound fine), for a few hours, but just playing the guitar will burnish the frets. You won't be taking enough off to make any difference, BTW, if you are just burnishing the frets with some sandpaper. I'm just too lazy to do it.

Crowning is what freaks me out. You see all this metal grinding off of your frets, that you just leveled. I still tend to leave them a little flatter than they should be, I think, for worry of taking off too much.

I just did my 7th neck yesterday, Ron Kirn style. I'm also in Ohio. :)

[appar111]

So 320 grit won't really be taking anything off? Since the neck'll still be taped at that point, I'll probably just hit it with the full micro mesh package. That'll get 'er nice and slick feeling for bends :)

It'll probably be a little disconcerting to see metal grinding off of frets, but that's how it's supposed to go from something flat to something crowned/rounded at the top, so I won't mind too much.

If I can get this whole crowning thing down (a couple cheapies to practice on), then hopefully by summer I'll be ready to try a refret <gasp!>

[RussBert]

I start with 400 grit...sometimes 600 and finish with 1500 or 2000, then I buff with some polishing compound (usually Simi-Chrome)

But the point is that you're polishing "with the grain" (i.e. the direction you bend the strings) and you don't dwell too long, just enough to get a shine going

[appar111]

Gotcha-- that makes sense Russbert.

thanks!
J

[Colt W. Knight]

After I crown, I like to polish them with 400, and then 800 or steel wool. Whatever is handy.

[appar111]

I have 400, 600, 800, 1000 and the micro-mesh family, as well as good ol' steel wool and that synthetic 0000 steel wool, so I think something in there should work.

I'm gettin' pumped about doing this!

[Ronkirn]

you couldn't remove enough metal to really make a difference with 320 grit..... have at it...

and remember dead level frets . . aren't.....

Ron

[Nick JD]

46 micrometers every two wipes or threreabouts. 0.0018".

The paper would be worn out and clogged by the time you heated the fret up enough to expand the wood underneath it ... and made the resulting fret height actually a few microns higher until it cooled. Or something like that.

[RussBert]

is a micrometer 1000 microns?


At any rate, there's no way a couple swipes with 320 paper are going to remove .0018" (one thousandth, and 8 ten-thousandths of an inch) In my day job I'm a tool & diemaker

[appar111]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

you couldn't remove enough metal to really make a difference with 320 grit..... have at it...

and remember dead level frets . . aren't.....

Ron

Makes me wonder about guys that are using your fret leveling thread but putting 320 or 400 grit sandpaper on their leveling beams... sounds like they're in for a looooong leveling process.

So if I use your leveling method, the frets won't be dead level? I'm assuming you mean that nothing is ever really 100% dead level (?)

180 grit sandpaper roll is on its way, I have a 2 x 20" marble entryway slab ready to spray some adhesive on, and my fret crowning file from Stew-Mac should be here in a day or two. Let's DO this...

[Commodore 64]

I use 240 for the leveling, often yearn for something a little faster, I bet that 180 is just peachy.

[Barimonster]

I'm curious -- when you glue the sandpaper to the level beam (Ron mentions using 3M's 77 spray glue) what is it like removing that paper to put a new sheet on? Do you scrape it off? How is the level surface then?

The Super 77 spray glue is pretty heavy duty adhesive.

[Ronkirn]

what is it like removing that paper to put a new sheet

Heat it with a hair dryer, or a heat gun, peal the old paper off....clean the glue with mineral spirits... and you're good to go...

r

[DaveCCF]

I used a 300'ish grit sandpaper with one of Marty's beams and it took metal off as fast as I wanted it to. Truth is in the marker on the frets. I was swiping for about 15 minutes before I got all frets down to the lowest fret and that's not too much time in my book considering going too far with a heavy grit paper could mean re-fretting.

Patience Grasshopper!

[appar111]

Well, I got home tonight and my order from Stew-Mac arrived with the medium/wide fret crowning file.

Since my order from Amazon with a roll of 180 grit sandpaper hasn't arrived, I decided to make do with what I had in the sandpaper drawer. 180 grit piece about 9 inches long.

My buddy who cut the 2" x 36" marble entryway slab cut it into 20", 10" and 6" pieces. So I busted out the 10" piece and spray adhesive and made a leveling beam.

Took my Squier Bullet Special apart, taped off the fretboard and went to town following Ron's instructions. Part of the reason I got this guitar a couple weeks ago was to eventually experiment on it with stuff like this. Never thought that I'd be doing it this soon, though!

Overall, the process didn't take tremendously long. Probably alot longer than it takes Ron, but I didn't want to rush through it and muck something up. I didn't need to take alot off in order to get the sharpie lines to disappear, but that's ok with me. I didn't want to grind the frets away, I just wanted to get them level. I followed the "320 grit along the grain of the fret" stage with all the micro mesh grits and got it all polished up.

Slapped it all back together with the same set of strings, even threw a tiny shim in the neck pocket to lower the action a bit more.

And it's stupid. Stupid how low I can get the action now! Whoo boy! It's still only a $69 Squier Bullet Special, but it plays alot better now. For a total investment of about $60 (about $20 less than the cost of a fret leveling & crowning), I can now do it myself.

MUCHO thanks to Ron for the great informative thread and for giving very practical, straighforward advice to help demystify fret leveling/crowning.

I feel like I climbed a small mountain tonight and I should only get better at this skill the more I use it.

Thanks so much, Ron!

[Nick JD]

Originally Posted by RussBert

is a micrometer 1000 microns?

A micron is a micrometre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometre

The grain sizes in 320 grit paper are 46 micrometres (0.0018"). Used agressively a couple of passes will leave 46 micrometre deep scratches. To remove these scratches will require removal of 46 micrometres of material.

I'm not a tool and die maker by day.

[Barimonster]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

Heat it with a hair dryer, or a heat gun, peal the old paper off....clean the glue with mineral spirits... and you're good to go...

r

Thanks, Ron. I'll give it a go.

[KokoTele]

I've always used double-stick carpet tape to stick 320 grit to my leveling beam. When I remove the sandpaper the tape normally comes with it in one big piece. Sometimes there's a little adhesive left, and it comes off easily with just a bit of solvent.

320 is plenty aggressive and I wouldn't want to go much faster unless I was dressing out really deep divots. And if I was dressing out divots deep enough that I'd want courser grit paper, I'd have to be thinking seriously about whether or not there's enough meat left to crown properly.

Rougher grits than 320 seem like using a 5 pound mallet to drive finishing nails. Fret work is all finesse, and you don't get finesse if you go too fast.

[Ronkirn]

use whatever grit you feel comfortable with.... I use 180.... takes me about 2 minutes to do a neck... and I do 'em a dozen in one sitting....so I don't wanna sit there trying to get 400 grit to take 'em down sloooowly when 180 is just fine....

and you guys trying to find a cheep substitute for a good tool.... Are you crazy??? 30 bux for the granite beam Marty is selling.... that's the best 30 bux you will ever spend on your guitar...

rk