(Gibson'esque) bridge for partscaster

[telestroker]

Thinking of building a Partscaster in the near future - mahogany body, single dog-ear P90, rosewood fretboard.

The hiccup now is the deciding what kind of bridge to install. I'm thinking of using a wrap-around tailpiece (think LP Jr.) -or- a tune-o-matic bridge & stop. According to the Warmoth site, this will require an angled neck pocket.

1) Is it because the TOM bridge and wrap-around bridge sit higher than Fender'esque saddles?

2) Are there any wrap-around tailpieces that I could use that WON'T require an angled neck pocket, or the need to shim the neck?

3) Warmoth has the option to route and recess a TOM bridge, and having the strings go through the body (a la Telecaster). It doesn't look as clean as a wrap-around bridge, but I'm thinking it might be resonant.

I'd really prefer to use a wrap-around bridge, but am new to guitar putting-together (won't even call it building) and don't want too many surprises. Any tips, suggestions, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Wally]

If the TOM can be recessed to avoid having to angle the neck, then a one-piece stop bridge can be recessed, I would think. Ask Warmoth about it. One might have to shorten the inserts and the studs????

[BigDaddyLH]

Are you sure you won't consider a strat-type hardtail? Like a Schaller or an ABM?

[homerzeppelin]

A G.E. Smith cut Tele bridge would look cool too.

[BigDaddyLH]

Is this a chicken and egg question? Are LP necks angled back because of the T-O-M bridge or are the bridges higher up off the body because the necks are angled back?

['56Teleman]

chicken

[Wally]

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLH

Is this a chicken and egg question? Are LP necks angled back because of the T-O-M bridge or are the bridges higher up off the body because the necks are angled back?

ORville Gibson didn't raise chickens or gather eggs.
O. Gibson believed that guitars should be built in the manner of the viol family of instruments, so Gibson has always (with the exception of some 'modern'---read late '60's and later--- guitars) built guitars with angled necks. IN the late '60's, Gibson msitakenly built some Melody Maker and SG-type guitars with 'flat' neck angles. Those guitars are often unplayable, ime, due to the height of the bridge....or they make really good slide guitars, right?

[telestroker]

So what does Mike Potvin do on his Ranchero guitars?



Does the neck sit a little higher in the pocket? Is it angled? And yes, what I have in mind is "heavily inspired" by the Ranchero. I like the simplicity of it. What I'd build wouldn't be an exact copy though - want a satin finish, smaller pickguard, and strat knobs.

[Wally]

I have never seen a RAnchero guitar, but it does look as if the neck sits out of the pocket a bit higher than does a Tele. From this pic you have posted, I have concerns about the gap between the pickups and the strings. IF I saw the guitar in hand, I might not have that concern, but that high E string is a long way form the pickup.
These basic geometry questions have to be addressed in the design stage, or something that looks a lot like a guitar can turn out to be something less than one was shooting for.
I have seen brand new $5500 Martin D-45's...2 of them in one week.... that were useless as musical instrumetns due to errors in the geometry. Tehy were beautiful to look at, but they would never make music until they had their necks reset at the proper angle. Martin knows the correct geometry, but sometimes mistakes are made.
FWIW, one other concern one would have to deal with would be the fretboard radius. You would want a match for the radii of the 'board and the bridge. Any mismatch creates problems. Ex: Les Pauls come with 15" radius bridges and 12" radius 'boards. That has to be corrected before one feels correct and plays well, imho.
Tele bridges are simple enough while still allowing one to adjust for different 'board radii, different set-ups, and different string gauges. I also like the one-piece Gibson style bridges, but one has to make decisions before trying to build a guitar with one that one might not have to be concerned about if one uses a bridge that is more in the style of the Tele bridge.

[telestroker]

Wally,

Thanks for the input. The neck DOES look like it sits high on the Ranchero. Reading several guitar magazine reviews of the guitar, they say it's a little hard(er) to play because the action is high. Maybe it's the wrap-around bridge sitting high, or the neck wasn't angled.

You make a good point re the saddle and fretboard radii. Looks like Gibson bridges have a 12" saddle radius. The tele necks I've see have 9.5" radius. I've never been comfortable with the flatness of Gibson fretboards. This will make me reconsider the bridge option since playability is more important that looks.

[BigDaddyLH]

BTW, the hardtail bridges I posted in reply #3 have saddles whose heights can be individually adjusted.

[telestroker]

Found this thread re a 9.5" radius wrap-around bridge for the Fender Stratosonic.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/....php?t=2452857


More reading on matching bridge and fretboard radii - most people think it's a non-issue.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech...ck-radius.html


Going to e-mail Warmoth and ask: If they can recess a TOM bridge to avoid angling the neck pocket, whether they can recess a wrap-around bridge as well.

[Nick JD]

If you get them to recess your bridge don't forget that your dog-ears need to fit undeneath the strings still...

If you have a 9.5" radius fretboard, a 12" radius bridge will set up fine. I wouldn't mix a 12" bridge and a 7.25 though.

[Wally]

HEre is the result of a 12" radius bridge and a 9.5" radius board. IF you like, draw out the two radii on a sheet of paper with the shorter radius right beneath the larger raidus so that it is esay to see. The outside strings will be father off of the board than the inside strings. The outside strings will therefore have a stiffer feel than do the inside strings. The inside strings will rattle agaisnt the frets more readily than do the outside strings.
When I am through setting up a guitar, all fret positions have the same 'feel'...tension.
When one plays a guitar that is set up thie way, one will begin to relax. ONe can apply the same pick attack to any fret postion and expect the same results. That is, if a certain pick attack strenghth does not rattle the string against the fret on one position, that same pick attack strenghth will not cause fret rattle at any other position.
Until one plays a guitar that has been set up this way, one might not understand these ramifications of mismatched radii. I have had even pros thank me for giving them instruments that yield a better feel and a more consistent reaction, intonation, and sonics.....and they had never felt how a truly properly set-up instrument could feel and act.
I can hear two things when I listen to someone play....how the instrument is set-up and how the player is playing it. 48 years of playing and listening can reveal a lot if one is paying attention.

[mikep]

Doh! Sorry I'm late to the party, someone else pointed this thread out to me

The neck pocket depth on the Ranchero is 'normal' depth, but it is angled slightly to accomodate the bridge. The fretboard has a 12" radius to match the bridge / nut. I set the action a little higher on that particular guitar at the request of the person that was about to do some demo's with it. There's no issue getting action as low as you want.

One important thing to keep in mind is that dog ear P90s have no real means of adjusting the height, so if you build something with no neck angle you may run into issues with string clearance.

Telestroker, post some pics of your build!

Mike

[surfdood]

I did a similar job on a tele copy a couple of years ago, I replied to a similar question that was back on page 8. I used a cheap gibson style tailpiece which I shaped using files and wire wool. I used a radius template to get the curve of the bridge right and shaped it into a ridge more like the original LP Junior bridges. For positioning I used the original tele bridge and marked this onto paper I stuck on either side. With a lot of fettling I managed to end up with no neck shim and the bridge/tailpiece screwed down to the body. I used a few sets of strings though. Instead of using the holes in the bridge I kept it as a string through, which keeps the string spacing right. Anyway it works and I think it sounds great. Good luck!

[Stratified]

Might be late to the table, but a discontinued Japanese guitar, The Caparison PLM-3 Pete Lesperance Signature Model (http://www.caparison.jp/caparison-en...oldmodels.html) had a recessed Gibson style bridge (a Schaller actually) and apparently no neck angle.