Fret Crowning Question

[samato]

I think I figured out what I was doing wrong, or at least one of the things I was doing wrong - bad crowning job. I was taking off too much with the crowning file and bringing the tops down, basically undoing the leveling I just did.

I also didn't realize my crowning file only cuts in one direction. I think I just need to improve my crowning technique and things should be okay.

[Colt W. Knight]

Thats exactly what i did on my first fret level.

When I crown frets now, I crown them until the flat spot dissappears. so I go light .

Buffing them was never a big deal for me. I just sanded them real quick with 400 and took them over to my buffer. Makes them perfectly smooth and shiny.

[jwayne]

I'm new to fret work too and just did my first fret level and crown on a tele cv50 neck. My turned out very good minus the fact that it seems a bit harder to bend strings...I'm guessing this is due to a poor polishing job. I also followed Kirns post to do mine.

I have questions about the crowning. I used the stewmac double edge crowning file:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting...Fret_File.html

I first marked all the frets w/ a black permenent marker. Then I filed till the marker was gone. I filed back and forth and not in one direction - is that wrong? When crowning with that file I purchased should I only go in one direction? It took me over 1.5 hours to just do the crowning...I was filing like crazy (sweat was beading up on my forehead). It felt like I had to grind alot off to get the marker to fully disapear.

Getting ready to do my other CV neck this weekend...Any suggestions on what I should change up on my crowning technique - or is it more buffing?

[Ronkirn]

It took me over 1.5 hours to just do the crowning

Something wrong there.. it should only take a few minutes...

r

[Ziggy]

Remember, the strings only hit the top part of the crown. If you are filing until all of the black mark disappears, I suspect that you are going way to far. I say this because it is doubtful that the curve of the file exactly matches the curve of the fret.

I believe that marking the frets would be done in the initial leveling and then just to indicate when they have all been "scratched/leveled."

The rest of the ink should come off in the polishing.

[jwayne]

Hmm. the job turned out real nice but I must got carried away with the crowning file.

One thing to point out is that when I was crowning using the Wider side of the crowning file I noticed it was still cutting into the side of the frets. Like the frets were to fat for the crowning file. It made the frets look distorted in shape on their sides but not on the crown. Because of this I crowned those frets down till they looked good and even on both sides. I also noticed that once I got them to this size the black marker was almost all gone...only a few more swipes with the file and they disapeared.

Do I have the wrong size crowning file? The frets had alot of wear and needed to be leveled pretty good so maybe I flattened them down too much?

I don't know what the heck I did wrong but overall the neck plays great now as far as buzzing goes but it's a bit sloppy looking on some frets (can see crowning file marks on side of frets not top) and seems a bit harder to bend strings.

[samato]

I hope we can continue this discussion on crowning here and try to get to the bottom of it because I know I still don't get it. I realize experience is the big factor here but hearing from people who know helps too. I think I'm okay with leveling now but crowning seems like the more artistic part of the job.

I think I'm still not doing it right because I still can't get the action as low as I'd like without buzzing. I'm at 4/64 on all strings at the 17th fret (on a 9.5" radius neck). High note bends aren't choking out. Overall the setup is decent but shouldn't I be able to go lower? Maybe my touch is too heavy for super low action but I've played guitars with the kind of action I want and they worked, I just haven't accomplished a setup like that myself.

[samato]

jwayne,

As far as it being harder to bend...

A really good tech I spoke to the other day told me he always polishes out to 1000 grit, whereas the other guy he works with (who is even more experienced and knowledgeable) only goes out to 400. He says he can really feel the difference. I know both guys are very good at what they do so it must just be a personal opinion thing based on how sensitive you are to that kind of thing and/or your playing style.

[jwayne]

I don't know. IMO 4/64 is pretty darn low. I can play mine at 4/64 but I tend to play a bit hard and some notes buzz. When I move to 5/64 there is no buzz at all. The CV neck that I did is also 9.5 radius.

One thing I did in addition to Ron's post was add some frett fall off. I covered the 10th fret with 4 pieces of tape, remarked the frets on the upper register and leveled those until the black marker was off. From what I read somewhere else I believe this is supposed to give lower action to the upper registers. Maybe someone else can speak of what fret fall off is more intellegently.

[jwayne]

samato - I think that it being hard to bend is due to my poor polishing job. On the neck I'm getting ready to do I'm going to polish it more out for sure...maybe to 800 or something. Then hit it with 0000 steel wool. Either way right now it's trial and error but I have not butchered anything yet some I'm forging forward - LOL

[jwayne]

I wonder if re-crowning and polishing the neck I just did would screw up the leveling job? Maybe I should have used the medium side of the crowning file instead of the wide side? I think if I did this though the file would cut more into the sides of the frets.

[mrmorrison]

Originally Posted by Ronkirn

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech...ele-101-a.html

rk

Bang up job, Ron...as usual!

[samato]

As you know I'm far from an expert but I wonder the same thing. I think re-crowning and polishing again could indeed screw up the leveling job.

I have the same file as you and also used the wide side.

[KokoTele]

Originally Posted by jwayne

I wonder if re-crowning and polishing the neck I just did would screw up the leveling job? Maybe I should have used the medium side of the crowning file instead of the wide side? I think if I did this though the file would cut more into the sides of the frets.

It's possible. I always use my fret rocker after crowning to see if I filed anything down too far, and then I check again after polishing just to be certain. I usually find a couple of spots at each point in the process that need a little extra attention. It's incredibly easy to get a little heavy handed with the crowning file in a spot and take it down a couple of thousandths when you didn't mean to.

When I first started doing fret work, someone told me that good fretwork is like voodoo (which ain't entirely true, but it seems like it when you're still learning), and to crown the frets until there's the tiniest hairline of a flat spot in the center of the fret. This does two things: it makes sure the top of the crown of each fret is still level with all the others, and it helps you make sure you're filing the frets symmetrically. That tiny hairline will disappear when you polish the frets.

[jwayne]

When I marked the frets again after leveling to begin the crowning I did so as I thought this would make it easy to tell when enough is enough....meaning when the black ink is gone move on to the next fret.

I think what I will do is lightly touch each fret with the crowning file, then polish up to 800 and buff. Also I need to take the edges off a bit which are a little rough after the level...I ordered a stewmac file for that..hopefully I get it by tomorror or on Saturday.

With the other CV neck...I think I'm going to practice on my stepsons guitar first...and then do my boss's starcaster...maybe after those two I will have a better idea.

[KokoTele]

This is another one of those things that takes lots of practice.

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but you also have to make sure that the neck is firmly supported along its entire length. If it's still attached to the body, the body also needs to be supported so it's all in the right position. If the neck is flexing at all (which it will if everything's not supported right) it will throw off the whole job.

[samato]

Ah, so that's another thing I did wrong. I didn't have the neck supported. I did everything with the neck on the body, the body clamped in place, but nothing under the neck. Well, at least we're narrowing down the issues. All part of the learning process.

I used a pretty light touch and my level is not that heavy so maybe I didn't completely throw things off but I'm sure there must have been some flexing.

[KokoTele]

I once did a level & crown on my LP clone having it on one of those workbench mats that supports the neck above the bench. Wasn't even thinking. Finished the job, tuned her up, and it buzzed more than I ever could have imagined. Then I realized what I had done, and why the middle frets were so much higher.

You'll get there. There's lots to learn to get this right.

[jwayne]

To keep mine level I just set the guitar flat then stacked up paper under the neck until from what I could tell it was supported. I just purchased the stewmac rock n roller neck rest: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Sp...Neck_Rest.html

Should that give enough support to level frets or how it raises the body off the surface is a bad thing?

[Ronkirn]

As long as you use a leveling tool somewhere around as long as the fingerboard, precise support is not critical, just don't get in the habit of pressing down on the neck, allow the weight of the tool to do the work. Where guys get into trouble is using a short tool and pushing down excessively.

Lots of guys just use small sand bags, it readily conforms to the shape of the neck and supports ‘em nicely


rk