Acceptable amount of string buzz?

[NasalFloss]

As I am new to guitars (I played bass for 8 years) I'm gonna ask a dumb question.

Do any of you suffer from string buzz when striking power chords for example? If I try and hit a power chord from the 7th fret onwards, the strings buzz. I have tried adjusting the truss rod which doesn't actually appear to be affecting the curvature of the neck that much (when fully tightened the stings buzz a little more), which indicates that is functional, but even at full relief there doesn't appear to be enough curvature in the neck. I have also measured the string height at the 12th fret before and after adjusting the truss rod and it just changes fractionaly from being fully tightened to being fully loosened

To cut a long story short, how much string buzz is normal? I don't strike the strings that hard either.

And I don't have the option of getting a professional setup as I live in the back of beyond.

I'd really appreciate it if you could shead some light on this

[ghostwolf]

whatever doesn't come through the smp is acceptable.

[Staggered Mag]

Some string rattle and buzz is normal on the lower strings. If you set the neck relief at around .010 at the 8th fret. Then set the string height at the 17th fret, 4/64 high E and 5/64 low E. This is about a Factory setting. If you notice more rattle and buzzing at certain points as you move up the neck, you may have some uneven frets. You may need to level and recrown those areas.

[NasalFloss]

Originally Posted by Staggered Mag

Some string rattle and buzz is normal on the lower strings. If you set the neck relief at around .010 at the 8th fret. Then set the string height at the 17th fret, 4/64 high E and 5/64 low E. This is about a Factory setting. If you notice more rattle and buzzing at certain points as you move up the neck, you may have some uneven frets. You may need to level and recrown those areas.

Nah, it's the same from the 7th fret downwards, predominately on the E and A strings, so the frets are level. I just don't understand why the truss rod is providing next to no relief - it's no broken because there is slight resistance when turning it, it doesn't rattle inside the neck and it stops when tightened too much.

I guess as long as it doesn't affect the sound when it's put through an amp that's ok, but it's frustrating when playing acoustically.

Does the truss rod provide just a very subtle amount of tension/relief because mine doesn't appear to be doing a heck of a lot

[mellecaster]

What gauge strings are you using....what type of Guitar ?

[NasalFloss]

Originally Posted by mellecaster

What gauge strings are you using....what type of Guitar ?

Using 10's on my CV

[Thin69]

Don't equate the truss rod with anything else but neck relief (at least for right now). If you are looking at string height after changing the truss rod adjustment you are headed for trouble.

Here is the Fender Tele set up guide.

http://www.fender.com/support/telecaster.php

It is so important to go through the entire set up procedure step by step. Try the Fender procedure first.

[e-merlin]

If it comes through the speakers, the action's too low.

[ThermionicScott]

Do the strings buzz and rattle when striking power chords, or are you just hearing string slap from the attack? I'd be inclined to leave it alone if it's not too objectionable. Sometimes raising the action will just make you play harder, causing it to keep buzzing and tire out your hands sooner.

I set up my guitars with almost no neck relief and moderately-low action (1/16"-5/64"). I can get string slap whenever I want by hitting hard, but there is almost no lingering rattle.

- Scott

[Ronsonic]

Are you just plain whacking the strings too hard?

Sorry, gotta ask. You admitted to being a bass player so please don't be offended when I question your technique on guitar.

With any percussion instrument (that includes guitar and bass) there's a point where hitting harder doesn't get louder, it just messes up the tone and intonation (even drums and cymbals). On guitar this threshold is a lot lower than on a bass. Usually when pounding out extremely hard, loud power chords on guitar the player (sometimes not even consciously) will apply a hint of palm muting to tame it and tighten up the sound. Just a touch of the heel of the picking hand on the bridge is enough to snap it into focus.

Again, sorry if this is basic.

[NasalFloss]

Originally Posted by Ronsonic

Are you just plain whacking the strings too hard?

Sorry, gotta ask. You admitted to being a bass player so please don't be offended when I question your technique on guitar.

With any percussion instrument (that includes guitar and bass) there's a point where hitting harder doesn't get louder, it just messes up the tone and intonation (even drums and cymbals). On guitar this threshold is a lot lower than on a bass. Usually when pounding out extremely hard, loud power chords on guitar the player (sometimes not even consciously) will apply a hint of palm muting to tame it and tighten up the sound. Just a touch of the heel of the picking hand on the bridge is enough to snap it into focus.

Again, sorry if this is basic.

No, no, not offended at all. You've made a very good point. I don't consider myself to be hitting the strings with much force, but there's the possibility that I might be. I've played fingerstyle for years!
I would say I have the muting down pretty well, but maybe I should be using it very subtly whilst playing all the time (do you?). At the minute I'm just using this technigue for muting ringing strings and doing a bit of chugging.

[Ronsonic]

Originally Posted by NasalFloss

No, no, not offended at all. You've made a very good point. I don't consider myself to be hitting the strings with much force, but there's the possibility that I might be. I've played fingerstyle for years!
I would say I have the muting down pretty well, but maybe I should be using it very subtly whilst playing all the time (do you?). At the minute I'm just using this technigue for muting ringing strings and doing a bit of chugging.

You ask a difficult question, stuff your hands learn to do that you don't even think about anymore. But, in general, yes a lot of subtle palm muting in rock rhythm playing, especially with power chords. Old style Tele bridges chew my hand up something awful.

Guitar doesn't accept much power, it gets a little counter-intuitive where hitting it harder sounds smaller. There is a point where it just doesn't get louder you just get more pitch drift and string rattle. Experiment gradually increasing and decreasing how hard you're punching the strings with more and less muting. You'll find among other things that a touch of muting keeps the strings controlled a bit so you can pick them faster too.

[TheKingBee]

I like a tele or strat to almost "rattle" up and down the neck. If you can't hear it through the amp it is ok. It is really all a matter of "what do YOU like?" since it is your guitar. I once heard that SRV's strat had such a terrible action that it was almost unplayable. It worked for him though!

[Gary in Boston]

If the buzz is effecting the sustain of the instrument then it's starting to interfear with the guitars function. My MIM rattles a bit doesn't seem to effect it much when through an amp.

Gary

[mrtoulouse]

All my guitars buzz a bit when played accoustically, and it wont show through an amp.
My experience is that if you have the action so high as to eliminate ALL buzzing and rattling when playing accoustically, you will have a hard time holding down chords in the upper part of the neck ( 12th fret and up), especially in an "a" shape barre chord, the 5th string can be hard to hold down with your barring finger; this ultimately results in a buzz that CAN be heard through the amp. On the other hand, I have found that having the action lower also means that it is a lot harder to pick fast, as the string is likely to be more wobly, and not have as consistent a feel of stiffness to it, due to the string rubbing slightly against the other frets; the amount of which will be different fret to fret; in other words, lower action means your guitar will recquirre a MUCH more consistent and steady attack than if you had the action higher, and even with a pretty consistent picking, I still find that the feel changes a bit from time to time.

To me higher action means easier soloing, and lower means easier chording, so it's all about finding the right compromise.

So do yourself a favour and spend some hours with just you and your guitar to find just the right setting for you; this is not something a shop can do for you. You have to be the one to do this in order to find the right setup for YOU.

I always set my guitars up with the guitar plugged in at normal playing volume, and suggest you do the same :)

If you're interested, my current setup on all my guitars are:

Nearly straight neck and a string gauge going: 11,14,18,26,36,48( a bit unusual I know) and the action meassured with a capo on the first fret to take nut height out of the equation :

-high E : 1.2 mm at the 13th fret.
-B : 1.2mm at the 12th fret.
-g : 1.2mm at the 9th fret.
-d : 1.2mm at the 9th fret.
-a : 1.2mm at the 9th fret.
low E : 1.2mm at the 7th fret.

The reason that all my meassurements are 1.2mm, and the fret number is the variable, is that I use a purple tortex pick under the string to do the meassurements quick and easily.

Best of luck

Oh and do remember, that the better your instruments feels to you, the better tone youll get from it

[Muttcaster]

Originally Posted by Thin69

Don't equate the truss rod with anything else but neck relief (at least for right now). If you are looking at string height after changing the truss rod adjustment you are headed for trouble.

I treat Fender electrics a lot like I treat banjos (and as opposed to acoustic guitars). There are 2 neck regions you need to look at- the upper neck from the 12th fret on up, and the lower neck from the 1st to 12th frets. The truss rod has little to no effect on the "upper" neck and it's very possible to set up so that you get good clearance in the lower neck, but it buzzes like crazy up the neck.

Therefore, what I do is start with a flat neck. I use shims and saddle adjustments to get the upper neck right. It's easy to fret a note and check the next fret for clearance- after awhile, you'll learn what kind of clearance you need and can eyeball it w/out actually playing.

After the upper neck is good, then I focus on the lower neck and dial in the desired amount of relief to keep the lower positions from buzzing. This will usually end up being right around .005-.008" of relief, measured with a capo on the 1st fret, fretting the 14th, and checking relief at the 7th.

All this assumes you started with nut slots that are the same height as the frets. I treat the nut basically as if it were a zero fret.

Again, it's very possible to have an electric or a banjo that plays good in the lower frets but buzzes badly up the neck. Raising the action isn't really the answer. Adjusting for the upper neck first, then manipulating the relief will give a neck that plays well, buzz-free, over the entire neck.

IME.

[TheKingBee]

this may sound crazy but this is the way I determine how high to set the strings

I tune the guitar. I bend the 1st string up 2 steps and get it low enough to where it will just barely fret out. I set the radius of the other strings according to this height. I then raise the 1st string slightly above where it should be but not parallel to the 2nd string. It always works for me. That method gets me into the ballpark to get to the fine tuning.

Once I get the bridge height where I want it I go to work on the nut. Both are equally important.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by e-merlin

If it comes through the speakers, the action's too low.

+1.

[GuitarGeorge]

I'm fanatical about string buzzing. If strings buzzing even slightly, tone is being compromised even if you can't hear it through the amp.

And besides, high action builds character.

[Blank]

^^ true that, i had 13-56 flats on my ibby, with the action higher than ppl during 420, it doesn't buzz, sounds awesome, and it's a pain the in the butt to play but it sounds awesome.