.022 or .047 cap question

[hardie775]

Hey Everyone, So i'm still scrambling to get my Fat Tele build right. Get my ducks in a row. I'm going to use the Fender diagram to wire it. Fender shows a .022 cap. SD's wiring page shows a .047 on most every HB and SC combination. The .022 is only used on strats and only when there are 2 tone knobs. strat with 1 tone uses a .047. I'm using a SD pearly gates in the neck.
My question is, is there that much of a difference? Brighter or darker? The only reason it's an issue at all is that around town, I have been unable to get the .022 cap i'd like, (oil in paper), and I have a .047 from RS guitarworks. One of those little yellow suckers. I've got an .022, but it's huge, more than i'd like to put in a tele cavity. So should I just go ahead and use it, (.047) or will the difference in sound be vast?
Appreciate everyone's feedback.

[sjtalon]

.022 is brighter and I would suggest going with that.

For the most part, the cap really comes into play as you turn your tone pot down, but does have some effect on the circuit all the time.

The higher the value of the cap, the faster/darker the tone will get from 10-1

[garrett]

It's totally down to personal preference. If you want it to get darker, use the .047. I personally prefer .022's because the tone doesn't muddy up as much.

[originalmatthew]

It really is personal preference. I like a .033 myself. Kind of splits the difference.

[Rick J]

For the record, the cap value doesn't have any effect at all when the tone knob is fully clockwise, (not sure if thats "on" or "off"!) Its only when you turn the knob and start to reduce the treble in the signal that the cap value will make any difference, - an .047 will darken the tone more over the full rotation of the pot than a .022. The difference is not enormous, and is only really noticeable on the last third or so of the pot's rotation, but in theory it should be somewhat different as soon as you can perceive that the tone knob is doing anything at all.

Rick J

[Ricky D.]

.047 is my favorite for Tele's now, but all a personal preference thing. Come to think of it, except for the guitars I've put together or modded in the last few years, I have no clue what's been in my guitars back to 1964.

If you like to experiment, bring test leads out of the cavity so you can switch back and forth between the two that you have. A few minutes of that and you will know which one you prefer.

[mgwhit]

Originally Posted by Rick J

For the record, the cap value doesn't have any effect at all when the tone knob is fully clockwise, (not sure if thats "on" or "off"!) Its only when you turn the knob and start to reduce the treble in the signal that the cap value will make any difference.

Not true. Unless you use a "no-load" pot or add a switch to fully disconnect the tone pot, you will always bleed a little high end through the tone circuit. It is minimal, but definitely noticeable. Ask anyone with an Esquire.

[TNO]

mgwhit has it right. Anyone who would argue is basing their opinion on theory rather than actual experience.

[fezz parka]

Rick J is much closer. The cap has no effect until almost full CCW. The pot will load the pickups (thus the term "no-load pot") but the cap itself is totally out of the picture when at full CW.

And this isn't theory TNO, it's actual experience.

Do you have a DVM? If so, remove your control plate and hook it up to the outside (coming from the vol pot) and middle lug where the cap is. Set it for continuity, and set your tone control full CCW. You should hear the continuity "beep" and it should be steady. Now rotate the tone knob CW until the beep stops. Note where you are on the rotation. This is where the cap is out of the picture.

[JohnS]

My stock Cali Fat Tele has a .022 cap with a 500K vol and 250K tone pot.

[Wayne Alexander]

Try them both, with the tone pot in various positions - full up, halfway, full down, and see what you think. I tend to like smaller tone pots than "stock" on many guitars, because I have no use for the full bass/muffled sound that a .047uf gives you in a tele, for instance. I generally like .022uf or even .015uf tone cap values, especially when there's a humbucker pickup involved, because with the tone control to the bassiest position, a lower value tone cap gives me a "cocked wah" sound I can actually use whereas the bigger tone cap values do not - too bassy/muffled. But my ears aren't the issue, yours are. Don't ask us, listen to it yourself. The difference won't be subtle.

[sjtalon]

I'm gonna have to try what Fuzz says because I'm back walking the fence again on this one. I use to believe there was no effect too, but got trumped on that deal several times.

This is like a lot of things, but opinion, theory, hear say, wanting to believe what you think because you don't want to admit your wrong doesn't fly with electronics !

Something is, or it isn't, no smoke and mirrors ! Electricity is scientific.

Another reason in my belief that there is no factor in the cap is the "if a tree falls in the forest" posture.

If a person hooks up a bunch of fancy pants meters to a curcuit and can prove that there is, in fact a difference in readings, one way against the other, good for you, you proved an electical point.

If a person can't acually HEAR the difference, one way or the other, then the cap DOESN'T MEAN JACK in an electic guitar, with the tone wide open.

As Fezz posted "it's actual experience"

[hardie775]

Appreciate the discussion Yall, Very helpful.

[jrich99]

Originally Posted by fezz parka

Rick J is much closer. The cap has no effect until almost full CCW. The pot will load the pickups (thus the term "no-load pot") but the cap itself is totally out of the picture when at full CW.

And this isn't theory TNO, it's actual experience.

Do you have a DVM? If so, remove your control plate and hook it up to the outside (coming from the vol pot) and middle lug where the cap is. Set it for continuity, and set your tone control full CCW. You should hear the continuity "beep" and it should be steady. Now rotate the tone knob CW until the beep stops. Note where you are on the rotation. This is where the cap is out of the picture.

Well said, this is how I have always thought it to be.

[jmclaren]

I recently completely bypassed the tone pot on my Tele and like the open, bright tone. Mgwhit mentioned a "no load" tone pot above. I'm not familiar with this. Does this mean that a fully clock-wize no load tone pot will have the same effect on the tone as a bypassed pot? If it does, I might install one for the rare occaision when I might want to roll of some highs.

[FuzzFace]

I think .022 is the highest you can go considering your guitar has a neck humbucker. Any higher and it might get too muddy if you roll back the tone control.

Going with a higher value volume pot around 300-350k can help keep things balanced as well.

I've some excellent 1950's paper/oil caps if you're still looking.-Lots of different values for nailing the right amount of cut.

[FuzzFace]

Originally Posted by jmclaren

I recently completely bypassed the tone pot on my Tele and like the open, bright tone. Mgwhit mentioned a "no load" tone pot above. I'm not familiar with this. Does this mean that a fully clock-wize no load tone pot will have the same effect on the tone as a bypassed pot? If it does, I might install one for the rare occaision when I might want to roll of some highs.

Yeah, the fender no load pot has a "click" at the top of the rotation that takes the tone pot out of the circuit.

You can buy one of those or modify a regular CTS pot for the same effect.

[tazzboy]

You can always do the Push-Pull Route or TBX Tone Knob.

[tonyw]

I make my own no load pots and save some $$$

[jmclaren]

How do you guys modify a tone pot to make it "no load"?