New / Old F tuner differences?

[AntoStrummer]

Hi All!

I am looking at getting some 70s F tuners to put on my 77 tele.

Is there any way to tell if a set of tuners is an aged set of RI F tuners rather than a vintage set.

Thanks

[mellecaster]

Here are some Pics of Early 70s Schallers I restored for a Project awhile back...they may help you some ?

[SamBooka]

yeah...
I noticed that they arent the same size so you WILL have to replace there ferrules. I also find that on the new tuners the hole for the string (there is a word for it.. but I dont remember.. ) is smaller. Anything heavier than a .050 and you will have to enlarge it.
There is a visual difference.. slight.. but it is there. I will let you know in a couple of minutes.

[SamBooka]

Ok.. I cant load any pictures.
on the underside (exterior) of your original tuners you see where the tuning key actually goes through the tuner cover. On the reissues they dont. That is the dead giveaway. Other quick differences.. the F isnt as deep on the new ones and the shafts of the tuner are chromed to matched the tuner buttons.

This is comparing new F tuner I bought last year (fender replacement parts) to the tuners on my 74 tele standard. Take all I say with a grain of salt.

[SamBooka]

I am back.. hey Mellecaster.. you restored the tuners?
What did you have to do? I am not sure I would be able to reclose the tuners if I opened them.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by SamBooka

I am back.. hey Mellecaster.. you restored the tuners?
What did you have to do? I am not sure I would be able to reclose the tuners if I opened them.

Sam...sure you could !...I just disassembled them to give them a good cleaning in solvent, and to remove all the old hardened grease....blew em dry w/ compressed air...lubed them back up....no real special tools required.

[SamBooka]

Cool.. I pulled one of the bad ones appart.. the worm gear is chewed to pieces. I dont think there is much you can do besides clean and lube them.

[AntoStrummer]

Thanks both, it doesn't sound like there is anything I can ask the seller that will easily identify them, they say they are '77 and have 1100 guitar items sold with 100% feedback, I will just have to trust them.

Still bothers me that there are three sets up for sale but maybe I'm just paranoid - that's what they say about me I'm sure............

[rob2]

Anto,
There were at least two types of "F" tuner and the change seems to have happened around '76.If the set you get are from '77 they might be slightly different to the one's in Mellecasters photos which are possibly the USA made Race and Olmstead type used approx '65 to '76.It won't mean you've been sold reissues necessarily.As you can see in the photos the "button" shaft runs in cut outs in the casing-the later Schallers will have the gears clipped together with a copper coloured clip and a die-cast base.They have a slightly different cover shape and no visible axle end.They can be fully dismantled too but it takes a bit more effort.
As stated the thickness of the "split" in the shaft is a good indication,I've also noticed they do not line up absolutely precisely with the original screwholes.If in doubt post a photo,it may allow a more definite answer.

[AntoStrummer]

Okay, I'll take a flyer and trust the guy, when they arrive I will post pics - if they are original then this guy is a good source for Fender parts in the UK.

[SamBooka]

Ok.. So I looked closely at my headstock. They are the original gromets. Now that I think back I might have had to enlarge the headstock holes 1/32nd or so (!!!! I did it from the back so I didnt have to knock out the grommets) That would explain why I was so pissed after I bought them.

Rob, thanks for the explanation of the difference in the Tuners. Where I worked in the 90s we had a NOS set of replacement shallers. I remember the brass strip. I had read about the r&o tuners before but it never clicked that that is what I had.. just assumed they were Schallers :)

[rob2]

I remember being told the present Schaller reissues owe their slightly different dimensions such as the narrower "split" in the shaft to the fact that the original tooling was lost/worn out/damaged so when Fender wanted them again for the RI's they had to start from scratch with new tooling too.Its been worth their while I guess!
I've wondered if the innards could be used to rebuild older sets but haven't call to be messing around like that anymore!
Years ago I was able to use the solid shaft from a related Schaller set that had I think come off a Gib (but were most likely originally Ricky) to replace the shaft of one on a Strat that had one of the "splits" broken(oddly only time I ever saw that,tough units in my experience).I was able to cut a split into it and the gears etc matched.Those ones had round buttons as well and an "S" on the trapezoid casing-still have the remains of that set somewhere...