stolen ideas for 5-way strat switch

[dlaroe]

Reading TDPRI has been great, a wealth of information. I've tried a bunch of Esquire mods and got some Keystones thanks to these forums.

I read a bunch of posts about 4 and 5 way switching and put a couple of their ideas together for my current Tele.

It's the Anderton switch layout but instead of a jumper wire linking the two sides of the switch use a .01 mfd cap and ground the second terminal too. This cap is then either shunted to ground in position 4 reducing brightness or in series with the two pickups in position 5 reducing the bass and overall volume to match the other selections (got that from one of Deaf Eddie's posts pondering over Bill Lawrence's 5-way layout).

This works great for me and is exactly what I was looking for. Using one cap for two things is a compromise but I dig the sounds. To me it sounds like a standard Tele plus jazzier neck and a bridge humbucker.

I've shamelessly (ab)used one of DE's fantastic diagrams and attached it. Please let me know if I should remove it.

Thanks, I'm glad I found this place,
Dale

[Deaf Eddie]

DE here - I don't mind. Of course, it wasn't MY mod in the first place - I just redrew it for ease of comprehension!

Replacing the series jumper with a cap isn't an original idea either, but it was a revelation to me.

[fernando]

very interesting, thank you both

on pos. 5, is the cap in series with the pups or are the pups in series with each other?

[Deaf Eddie]

In throw #5, it goes: hot > bridge pup > cap > neck pup > ground. So, the cap and pups are all in series, with the cap BETWEEN the bridge and neck pup, making the series connection between the pickups (rather than a straight connection/jumper). Chokes out some of the (sometimes overpowering) fullness and gain that the series throw typically has.

[fernando]

OK, nice! I remember reading about but it's clear now.

I also want to experiment filtering the bridge pup when out of phase both in paralel and in series with neck pup. (cap, cap+res, etc) for my wirings

[dlaroe]

DE is on the money...

I guess that would be the "1/2 out of phase" sound from the Bill Lawrence 5-way switch?

[74n4LL0]

Originally Posted by fernando

OK, nice! I remember reading about but it's clear now.

I also want to experiment filtering the bridge pup when out of phase both in paralel and in series with neck pup. (cap, cap+res, etc) for my wirings

I actually have that controlled out of phase in my tele. It's a lil more percussive sound similar to position 4 on strat.
here's the link on how's wired my tele if you're interested ;)

[fernando]

thanks a lot 74n4!

[Deaf Eddie]

For those of you joining late: just to be clear, in the drawing shown in the original post, it's IN phase, not out of phase. It would be a "tamed" version of the series tone that you get with the Fender 4-way mod, not Strat-like at all. More "humbucker-ish" sounding.

There's a "Strat-ish" tone that is a PARALLEL/out of phase combo, and it can be had with the "Bill Lawrence 5-way for Tele" scheme:



The cap is in series with the neck pup, and that combination is parallel to the bridge pup. The cap in series knocks some of the low end off of the neck pup, so you get less phase cancellation for a tone that is warmer than just standard parallel/out of phase. Again, not my scheme, I just redrew it...

AND, it's worth saying again, for the umpteen-milliionth time, throws #2 and #4 on a Strat are NOT out of phase, just parallel. The "quack" is caused by the proximity of pickups with similar outputs - NOT by them being out of phase.

[Fernder]

Awesome, I've been looking for a good 5 way mod. Thanks

[dannyhill]

Hi all,

Maybe I got my paths mixed up, but isn't the series jumper wire the red one on the RHS? As far as I can see, aside from 'loops' in the paralllel position (2), that jumper is in no other 'closed circuit'. From memory, if you put your series tamer there instead of the pink wire you can get both rolled off treble (4th) and 'low fat' series (5th) with separate caps?

BTW, I seemed to have 'cooked' my bridge pup, after I opened it up (de solder case) to add a third wire it went from 100% output, to 90% after a while, and then 0%. I opened it up and the internal wiring seemed ok but infinite Ohms between +ve and -ve ends of the coil. I have a push pull on the volume pot for reversing its phase, so I left that wired to the 5 way but just removed the pickup wires on the centre lugs of the p/p.
Now it gets better. Paranoid that maybe the copper tape inside the neck pup was not connected to the casing (it had broke on the bridge pup and I had to fix it) I opened her up (slice at/gentle de-solder the solder joint between base and casing) and checked all was ok. Re-wrapped the (3rd) -ve wire in a small piece of insulation tape at the joint between internal and external wires and re-soldered the casing closed. Added it into the circuit, only now read 7.15kOhm and not stock 7.2KOhm, and that's after it read 7.3KOhm earlier that afternoon! Coil temperature changes? Anyway, no output in positions 1, 2 and 5. 3 and 4 sound identical, cause I probably soldered the ground wire to the -ve lug of the volume pot on the wrong side of the neck tone pot. But 3 and 4 are very low (audible) output. ??? I will get the DMM on it again later but have I de-gaussed the poles or damaged the coil? Or is it just the infinite impedance across the bridge connections to the 5 way that is causing this?
I just ordered a new bridge pup and I might need to quickly add a new neck too!
Thanks in advance for any help!

DH

[dannyhill]

OK, well the gauss is good in my neck pickup, as is the DC resistance 7.2 +/-0.05KOhm. I actually had the neck ground with a bad contact on the ground rail and my amp jack was loose making a bad hot connection! Fixed that to find I had wired the 5 way the wrong way around! Doh! So turned it around and now I get a quieter bassier sound in position 4 than position 3. Also still getting position 2. Of course no 1 or 5 whilst no bridge pup installed. although if I tie the ground wire coming from the 5 way for the bridge pup to ground (no pup remember) I lose position 4 (or 2 with the bridge phase reversed).
Funny thing though, as all positions now sound more sustained, more like a bit 'wah' now. Have I done something wrong? Did I use the wrong neck tone cap (0.01) for the tone pot cap (0.047)? Will it all right itself when I put the bridge pup in?
I'm sure this is all transparent to EB! But it's got me stumped!
Is this all due to using the tamer cap instead of the red wire linking the two lugs on the RHS of the 5 way diagram? Shorting on the 5 way?
Thanks a ever, in advance.

DH

[dannyhill]

Hi guys,

With my other tele I made this up. Its amazing how much you can fit the standard tele control cavity!
All positions seem to be fine except position 4. I don't think I get any bridge pup coming through but I do get a knocking sound with the tap test but its different to the 1,2,5 where when I tap it I get some 'buzzing' too. ???
On my 'circuit diagram it looks like both bridge and neck pups are in parallel with the neck tone cap?
Any ideas. Anyone made this?
Thanks in advance,

DH

Update: I swapped the 0.01uF for a 0.0033uF neck tone/series tamer cap and the volume drop in position 4 is a lot less but I still get a useful, in fact nicer tone, very stratty. Position 5 is still ballsy enough too.

[dannyhill]

BUMP!

[AJBaker]

Hi!
While I'm glad on the one hand you revived this three year old thread (didn't know about that wiring, looks pretty cool!), you've actually committed two faux pas for this forum.
First, don't post in threads that are too old. Three years is way too much; the people who originally posted might not even be around any more.
Secondly, it's considered a bit of a hijack to change the subject of the thread (from mentioning the mod, to your problem with wiring your tele).

Don't worry, just start a new thread and repost what you've written. I'm sure many people here will be able to help!

[Thinlineggman]

Originally Posted by AJBaker

Hi!
While I'm glad on the one hand you revived this three year old thread (didn't know about that wiring, looks pretty cool!), you've actually committed two faux pas for this forum.
First, don't post in threads that are too old. Three years is way too much; the people who originally posted might not even be around any more.
Secondly, it's considered a bit of a hijack to change the subject of the thread (from mentioning the mod, to your problem with wiring your tele).

Don't worry, just start a new thread and repost what you've written. I'm sure many people here will be able to help!

I'm glad that he bumped this actually. I'm gonna try those wiring mods in my tele soon.....

[AJBaker]

Originally Posted by Thinlineggman

I'm glad that he bumped this actually. I'm gonna try those wiring mods in my tele soon.....

Me too actually! But I think the reasons I listed above are why no one answered his questions.

[editorjuno]

Originally Posted by dlaroe

DE is on the money...

I guess that would be the "1/2 out of phase" sound from the Bill Lawrence 5-way switch?

No -- half out of phase involves reversing the electrical polarity of the neck pickup and inserting a cap in series with one lead from that pickup, but otherwise it's a parallel circuit, which is not the case here. "Taming" the series position can be done with a cap, a resistor, or a combination of the two -- thinking of a cap as a selective, frequency-dependent resistor helps clarify what it does here.

[maryjane]

man, i'm glad i saw this thread! i'm ordering a body for my next "dream tele" and
the new "quincecavron" is definitely getting a five way sweitch with cap!

[dannyhill]

AJ,

This is a bit weird, I get no replies here, I get criticised for reopening an old thread and going off subject. Then you say I should open a new thread and post there. I do that.
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech...ml#post4299977
I wait a few days and nothing!
I come back here out of curiosity and 4 posts!!! LOL.


So what is going on in position 4? Are the two pups in some sort of parallel configuration or series configuration? I definitely get a 'thunk' in the screwdriver tap test, when I pull the bridge phase reverse, the tone changes, and its less noisy than positions 1 and 3. In fact I would say its the less noisy of all positions!!!
I see this on two different teles with the same scheme.

@EditorJuno: See this page for an interesting way of explaining the tone:
http://www.tdpri.com/forum/tele-tech...uack-tele.html

"The series cap filters out some of the low frequencies from the neck pickup. So you have full bridge pickup and only highs from the neck pickup. Since some of the frequencies are blocked, it leaves less frequencies affected by phasing. Hence, "half out of phase."

I've also seen it called Controlled Out of Phase, which might be a less confusing term."