Should I be using 500k pots?

[Mr.Reed]

I have a lindyfralin P92 in the neck, and a Bill Lawrence Duel blade in the bridge (the tele version). I think it sounds pretty alright (even more so last night, when I sat down and ran it through all the paces I could think of). But technically both are humbuckers (I believe), but I'm afraid the Bill Lawrence would come off having too much treble if I switch out the 250k pots... Opinions?

[originalmatthew]

You could try 300K gibson pots

[Roli]

- You can always turn the tone pot down a bit to get it where it sounds exactly like it did with the 250k pots.

- If I understand this Terry Downs article correctly, higher volume pot values don't stretch the frequency range higher in the treble region, using them only results in a greater amplitude - especially at the resonance peak of the pickups; thus making the overall output bigger.

[jefrs]

Volume B500k volume pots for humbuckers or mixed sc/hb (300k may be a bit muddy for a tele).

Tone, you have to experiment A500k, A250k, 22nF or 47nF. A500k suits hb, A250k suits sc, a compromise, or ...

I found a Fender TBX with 47nF worked so well on my H/S tele that I've fitted them to four other guitars.

[zvonik]

If you like the way it sounds, don't touch it.

That said, if you look at the volume pot, the middle contact is the wiper. When it's full volume, there is near zero resistance between the pickup and the wiper but from the wiper to ground is (say) 250K. The amps input impedance (1Meg Ohm typ) is in parallel with the 250K and the pickup drives the parallel combination of 1Meg and 250K (200K). When its zero volume, there is 250K from the pickup to the wiper and 0 Ohms from the wiper to ground. The amps input is now in parallel with 0 Ohms and and its input signal is ground. At all times the pickup saw a 250K load. So the point of all this is that the volume pot value can have an effect and it's likely that doubling its value will change the sound perceptibly. People claim they hear a difference in brightness. It's possible.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support...=standard_tele

[JohnnyCrash]

Gibson used 500k for P-90s. Dual blades are humbuckers.

This would lead me to suggest 500k to add a tad of brightness, but how do they sound to you as-is?

[tdowns]

Originally Posted by Roli

- ..........

- If I understand this Terry Downs article correctly, higher volume pot values don't stretch the frequency range higher in the treble region, using them only results in a greater amplitude - especially at the resonance peak of the pickups; thus making the overall output bigger.

You got it Roli.

[Mr.Reed]

The neck sounds a bit muffled, so I'd like to make it a bit clear. The bridge on the other hand sounds nice on the high end and just a tad muffled on the lows, but not to any degree where I think it qualifies as a poor sound; I think it sounds quite nice, and should refer to it as smooth rather than muffled and it reacts to the tone pot quite well.

I have another question, I wish to remove the neck p92 from the tone control, as I don't use the tone control with it (only with the bridge). Would doing this remove some of the "load" on the neck and brighten it? Without the need to switch pots?

[Mr.Reed]

Originally Posted by JohnnyCrash

Gibson used 500k for P-90s. Dual blades are humbuckers.

This would lead me to suggest 500k to add a tad of brightness, but how do they sound to you as-is?

I know the duel blade is a humbucker, but from what I've read (excluding technical stuff, pot value, resistors, etc.) it acts like a tele bridge, just a tad thicker and hum canceling.

[Mr.Reed]

Maybe just the tinkerer in me is getting the best of me. I've only had it wired for a few days, and everytime I play it, it sounds better. Hahaha I guess I'll learn more about how pots work from the thread at the very least. Thanks to everyone who chimed in. Maybe I'll just get an SX tele I can fiddle with, so I stop changing my main so much.

[octatonic]

300k or 500k pots for P90's for me.
I find I use the tone pot a lot with P90 style pickups- esp Harmonic Designs and Lollar's.

Not sure about Fralin/Lawrence but I've never mixed a P90 with a tele bridge.
Thought of using a concentric tone pot so you can have independent tone pots per pickup?

[Nick JD]

Guitar/amp curcuits are designed to remove high frequencies. Go for as much brightness as you can get ... you can always remove it.

I've never had the tone turned right down and complained that it was too bright. Have you?

Mud is thicker than crystal.

[Colt W. Knight]

I would definetly throw in some 500K pots.

[Mr.Reed]

Originally Posted by octatonic

300k or 500k pots for P90's for me.
I find I use the tone pot a lot with P90 style pickups- esp Harmonic Designs and Lollar's.

Not sure about Fralin/Lawrence but I've never mixed a P90 with a tele bridge.
Thought of using a concentric tone pot so you can have independent tone pots per pickup?

Haha, I've attempted this and found that it is too much for me. I think sticking to two knobs is best for me. I guess I will attempt the 500k pots sometime this year, the whole, get what brightness you can, and just roll off what you don't need seems to be a good selling point.

[jefrs]

Ok... A pickup is both a signal generator and an impedance. Humbuckers generally have a higher impedance 'L' than single coil pickups. A pickup wants to see a load 'R'. The output of the pickup is usually fed to the top of the volume pot, the pickup always sees this pot as its load. The vol pot is a potentiometer, that means "voltage divider", the wiper taps off the output from it. The fundamental frequency is a function of L and R. If you change the value of the vol pot you will change the characteristic of the circuit. The higher output of the humbucker generally wants a higher load.

For vol pots I fancy B250k for sc but B500k for hb and H/S because a hb through a B250k sounds muddy to me and a sc will work through a B500k.

I have found few tone circuits that suit both tele bridge sc and a full size hb neck, the hb likes A500k/22nF and the sc likes A250k/47nF, but the TBX is one such that works well for both.

The upshot is that you have to experiment, easy enough on a tele - try it and see.

[tdowns]

Originally Posted by jefrs

...... The fundamental frequency is a function of L and R. If you change the value of the vol pot you will change the characteristic of the circuit.

Jerfs,
I believe you have the terminology off base a bit. The fundamental frequency is the lowest frequency made by the string. The resonant frequency is determined by the inductance or the pickup (L) and the capacitance of the load (C = interwinding capacitance of the pickup + cable capacitance + amp capacitance). Also the DC resistance of the pickup moves the resonant frequency a bit since the Q of the pickup is generally less than 1.

But what you are saying in general is fundamentally true. The pickups and load capacitance have a resonant frequency that is generally in the treble region. Undamping it with a larger pot resistance will increase the resonance, where it lies in the spectrum.

Originally Posted by jefrs

...... The upshot is that you have to experiment, easy enough on a tele - try it and see

Big +1 on that.

[Roli]

Originally Posted by tdowns

You got it Roli.

Thank you Mr. Downs, ever since I read that article I'm not afraid to use 1M pots with single coils, and I have to say, I like it.

[tdowns]

Originally Posted by Roli

Thank you Mr. Downs, ever since I read that article I'm not afraid to use 1M pots with single coils, and I have to say, I like it.

Cool. I'm glad you got over your fear. Now we could really stir up some folks if we started a 1MEG pot users club here.

[Mr.Reed]

Originally Posted by tdowns

Jerfs,
I believe you have the terminology off base a bit. The fundamental frequency is the lowest frequency made by the string. The resonant frequency is determined by the inductance or the pickup (L) and the capacitance of the load (C = interwinding capacitance of the pickup + cable capacitance + amp capacitance). Also the DC resistance of the pickup moves the resonant frequency a bit since the Q of the pickup is generally less than 1.

But what you are saying in general is fundamentally true. The pickups and load capacitance have a resonant frequency that is generally in the treble region. Undamping it with a larger pot resistance will increase the resonance, where it lies in the spectrum.



Big +1 on that.

So basically...I can spend several days reading on this stuff (weeks even), decide that I'm still lost, or just buy some 500k pots and see what happens? hahaha what about removing the neck p92 from the tone pot (can I do that and still have the guitar function as normal?)? Would that brighten the pickup? I really like the sound other than the highs on the neck sound a tad muted, and I never use the tone pot in the neck anywho.

[charlie chitlin]

Originally Posted by tdowns

Cool. I'm glad you got over your fear. Now we could really stir up some folks if we started a 1MEG pot users club here.

I'm in.
On my Tele (1MEG is stock for '69, methinks) and on my everyday gigger Epiphone with P-90s.