Tone control turns volume of neck pickup completely off

[PeterJ]

Hey folks,

The neck position of my 52 reissue went extremely quiet. Was it the capacitor, I wondered. I took it as an opportunity to try making the change to modern wiring. I followed the Fender diagram with this result:

Bridge position was as it should be

Middle seemed to be the bridge position again

Neck position was ok until rolling off the treble which turned it down to zero (or so close to it that I had to crank the amp to hear it)


I then tried the diagram on the resources part of this forum with the result that the middle position didn't work and no change to the tone control problem with the neck pickup.

I've also tried the Seymour Duncan diagram and various other ones where the intended result should be neck middle and bridge all responsive to vol and tone controls without any being turned off. Same result. Sometimes, the middle position gives me two solo-ed neck pickups but I think that's just me not following the diagrams correctly.

I have a spare neck pickup (from an Original Vintage pair) which I substituted with the same result. I tried replacing the Oak Grigsby switch with a CRL. Same.

I am using the stock .047 cap, having only removed the dark circuit cap.
So if it isn't the switch, the pickup and the wiring is right and the tone pot works as it should for the bridge and middle positions, what could it be? Also, while with some schemes the middle position is distinct from the bridge it still doesn't sound as expected.

Could I just have two damaged neck pickups?

PeterJ

[cc9cii]

Sorry if I'm repeating what you've said - the tone works 100% correct with the bridge but not with neck?

Any chance of a pic or a diagram as you've wired it now?

[PeterJ]

Originally Posted by cc9cii

Sorry if I'm repeating what you've said - the tone works 100% correct with the bridge but not with neck?

Correct.

Any chance of a pic or a diagram as you've wired it now?

Photo not really possible right now but the most recent wiring diagram I followed was the one I linked to above (Fender calls it the Vintage special wiring). I also tried reverting to the original vintage scheme but it was the same as before, only a very tiny sound from the dark circuit. I should also point out that I tried turning the switch around to see if one of the lugs was bad. No difference: bridge pickup and middle position both responsive to the tone control. Neck turned down by the tone control.

PeterJ

[cc9cii]

I assume you're referring to http://www.fender.com/support/diagra...100212APg2.pdf.

There's nothing special about that wiring dgm. If you're saying that middle position works ok (i.e. vol works, tone works) but only with the bridge pickup, then you can rule out the neck pickup being shorted - because if the neck was shorted, then you'll get no sound from the middle/parallel configuration.

Next to check is if the neck pickup(s) have open circuit (i.e. broken wind somewhere). But you say that the neck pickup works fine until you touch the tone pot. Which means that the neck pickup must be ok... unless you're actually hearing the bridge pickup but thinking that it is the neck.

My bet is that somehow your wiring is not correct. Please check and re-check, look for blobs of solder or thin wire touching something it's not meant to.

When I debug I like to isolate things. If you're fine with soldering, try hooking up each of the pups directly to the volume pot, with the middle of the vol pot going to the jack. i.e. leave out the tone circuit and the 3 way switch. Once you're happy with the pups, you can add the switch back, but leave out the tone circuit. If that all works fine in all 3 positions, then add the tone circuit.

HTH and good luck.

[tazzboy]

Sounds to me like you didn't wire in something correct or didn't ground the pots correctly.

[PeterJ]

Originally Posted by tazzboy

Sounds to me like you didn't wire in something correct or didn't ground the pots correctly.

Yeah I guess it must seem like that and I'll admit I haven't really gone on a stray solder hunt or checked the integrity of the wires from the pickups but this problem with the neck pickup was happening before I tried changing the wiring scheme. The only resoldering I had done on that guitar was to change the neck pickup but that was successful (tone control worked on both pickups and dark circuit as it should). The problem also transcends the physical switch used, it always ends up the same.

I'll just have to be more rigorous in my examination of the soldering.

Thanks to both of you for your time, though. It's appreciated.

PeterJ

[tazzboy]

Yeah using the right kind of solder helps and checking and rechecking your wiring also helps as well.

[PeterJ]

I recently posted a problem I was having with the output of my neck pickup.

I had noticed that the dark circuit of my AV 52 had become too quiet and used that as an opportunity to change over to modern wiring. When I did the neck pup was thin, the middle position was indistinguishable from the bridge and the tone control wound the neck pup volume completely off (without any tone change along the way).

I rewired, and rewired the pots and switch according to every official diagram I could find, changed the switch itself and turned it roung, all the time eliminating possibilities. I got some thoughtful and patient help from fellow TDPRI-ers and at the end of all that had to conclude that both neck pickups I had (OVs) to try were off their game. One had completely died and the other had such feeble output that it had become unusable. The only cause I can give this is that it might have been yanked during one of my investigations or before I realised that it was easier to change neck relief by removing the neck, however gentle I thought I was being).

Anyway I replaced the pup with a 62 Custom reissue which worked a treat as soon as I wired it up, big beautiful Tele neck sound and a real middle position chime. While I was shopping I also bought a Fender no-load pot and put that in as well (comes with its own .022 cap). My Tele is back, now with added vim and I can discover why it's my favourite guitar all over again.

While it was in dry dock I had to be content with playing my Jazzmaster (poor me) which I really started getting to know more than before. Now I have two great six strings :)

PJ

[bradpdx]

This one is easy - your neck pickup has a broken winding. Check this by unsoldering one neck pickup wire and measuring the DC resistance across the pickup - should be 7K to 9K, but I'll bet yours is more like infinite K.

Replace or repair the neck PU and you are back in business.

EDIT: sorry, I see that this is exactly what you have done!

[Old Cane]

Did you buy it new? This just happened, right? Sounds like you're heading down the path but have you tried replacing the cap and wires? In other words, remove all wiring and start over? I'd do that (wire is the least expensive), then the cap, then the pots. That's all you haven't replaced, right?

Some of you are giving good tips but he's saying it was this way when he started.

[PeterJ]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Did you buy it new? This just happened, right? Sounds like you're heading down the path but have you tried replacing the cap and wires? In other words, remove all wiring and start over? I'd do that (wire is the least expensive), then the cap, then the pots. That's all you haven't replaced, right?

Some of you are giving good tips but he's saying it was this way when he started.

Correct. The reason I did the initial rewiring (ie from vintage to modern) was because of weakness in the dark position. Because we are not necessarily inclined to be eagle-eyed in our observations at every stage I missed the fact that the neck pup in solo-ed position was doing the same thing as I perceived later. The signal was weak and the tone rolled off its volume to silence without rolling off tone.

I was careful to read up about different wiring schemes but really, I'd got it right the first time. After a lot of rewiring and swapping pups and switches I had to come to the conclusion that the pickup itself was at fault. When I soldered up the new one it worked perfectly, rolling back the tone had exactly the expected effect and the middle position sounds like it should (rather than just another bridge pickup).

Having established that, I then replaced the tone pot with a no-load 250k one and the cap it came with. My Tele is back among the living now and as addictive to play as it had been. Actually, I think it's more addictive as the middle position is really putting the hook in me. And I really like the no-load. Subtle but worth it.

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread, your advice was helpful and appreciated.

This morning I was playing through a part I'm working on involving a very country style bend (A-minor on the e a and g sstrings, bending from b to c on the g-string). It went well but I thought "try it on the Jazzmaster". The jazzy was the only 6 string I had to play for a month while the Tele was on stumps and I've really grown to love it. Tried the bend. Uh uh. Plug the Tele back in thanks. Ah, home again :)

PeterJ