Low tuning and intonating...

[TheGoodTexan]

Due to the nature of several songs in my band, and also that the other guitar player always tunes standard, I keep one Tele tuned down a whole step - D to D. We do a lot of songs in the key of G, and that puts G in the standard A position, and gives me some different open string notes to work with. It blends well with the other guitar player.

But - I'm having problems with intonation up on the middle of the neck...it really gets noticeable around the 7th fret - then up higher. I'm using 11-15-19-32-42-52, and also using a set of 3 Barden compensated saddles.

I've adjusted the intonation till I'm blue in the face. I get it sounding good close to the nut, then it sounds bad up high. So then I get it sounding good up high and ther lower chords sound crappy.

I've finally gotten to the point where I tune it to the particular song.

Any suggestions?

[e-merlin]

Is the problem that several strings sound out of tune with each other? Or that you have trouble with strings sounding sharp or flat as you fret in different places.

Intonation is a much misunderstood thing. I apologize in advance if I'm covering the already known, but I'm going to try my hand here.

First, what Intonation does not do: It does not make one string play in tune with others. I used to have that misconception until it was explained to me.

What it does: It makes the string play (relatively) in tune with itself. It is a compensation for the increased tension when a string is fretted vs. the open note.

Take for instance a 25-1/2" scale guitar. If we set every string with a 25-1/2" length and tuned them to pitch each string would be in tune. However, when you fret any of them, they will be sharp due to increased tension. So, we have to increase the length of each string a certain amount to get it to be in tune with itself. Each string will require a different amount of compensation.

Of course intonation is at best a compromise because to be perfect you would need a specific compensation for each fret because the tension is marginally different at each fret.

Intonation should be set with each string tuned to the pitch where it will be used. Of course, those compensated saddles are designed to be used in standard tuning. That might be part of the problem.

You may need to stretch tune. That is, tune some strings a few cents sharp and some a few cents flat. Or it might help to tune the strings fretted where you play the most.

[TheGoodTexan]

Maybe I should clarify...(remember, I tune this Tele down a whole step).

It's mostly the fourth string from the top (normally the G string, but tuned to F on my Tele). I can play a big open E minor chord (Dm for me) and it sounds fine, but then I play an Em at the 7th fret (root on the A string) and the G string is slightly sharp. I can hear it, and it's registering sharp on the tuner.

So the open G is in tune, but at the 8th fret (and all around that area) it's sharp.

I should note that I never had this problem when I tuned this Tele to standard pitch.

[Kevin]

What you need to do is compromise, just like with normal tuning.

As e-merlin alluded to, no guitar is ever perfectly in tune -- and no single string is perfect at every fret. Even Feiten's system is designed to compensate and make a guitar sound in tune.

So.... My suggestion would be to not tune the G (now F) string to a perfect F pitch when played open. I would first tune it to F while holding it down at the 12th fret, and then check the pitch at the 5th and 7th frets. Try to find a compromise pitch that comes close at each fret. It may help, too, to actually intonate that string so that it's a bit flat at the 12th fret.

[sparky]

a wound G-string; it would be a cheap experiment and might help the intonation and tone. The downside is the different feel, which you may or may not like, or get used to.
I once got a great improvement like this, but I kept playing the wrong string, er, more than usual.
I probably should have persevered with it, and now you've made me think of it I might try again; I like to think I play better than I used to, so maybe I'll be able to adapt.

[5965]

My guess, and it's just that, would be that the offset is not intended for D-tuning and is now incorrect. Individual saddles are the only solution I can think of.

FWIW, a lot of people have to average the compensated saddles between the strings even in E. The only other possibility might be a bad string or strings.