Because Yegbert Asked

[boris bubbanov]

I "devolved" one of my 2 "In Louisiana" Am Se teles, the Cubic Zirc one with the vintage Tele bridge and stock rosewood board neck with Sperzel lockers. This is how it looked this morning:



I took the modded AV style $ 9 Fender vintage bridge with the 6-32 hardware and home made aluminum E-A compensated saddle off, and replaced it with this:



This is a stock Am Se cereal grade chromed brass plate, with oversized 9/64ths holes drilled in the A, G and little E length screw holes. I'd tried this in brass a while back and I hated it. The Aluminum saddles are intriguing though, because they offset some of the bland, fake piano emptiness you get with this plate in its stock application with brick style saddles.



Took me a number of tries to get saddles with intonation screws and springs that would sneak by the strings near the break point - AND intonate right AND be aligned halfway well.

Yes, it sounds pretty good, and the high end sounds are pretty nice.

Happy ending? Not if you really like twang. But it isn't real bad. It would not be this good, except this Am Se has the Original Vintage pickups. I guess I could try it on the "real" 2005 Am Se Tele I have with ordinary Am Se pickups. All it costs is time and the cost of a set of strings. Hey.

Should you go out and buy a 6-2-3? IMO? Negative.

[yegbert]

Thanks, Boris!

The strings are a bit close to a couple of the height screws, but that's still impressive and inspirational results, especially knowing you did this with hand tools. Nice work!

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by yegbert

Thanks, Boris!

The strings are a bit close to a couple of the height screws, but that's still impressive and inspirational results, especially knowing you did this with hand tools. Nice work!

Thanks.

They are close but they should be alright, based on what I'm seeing in person. I know it can be very hard to tell. But this exactly where the contest is - to get all the parts working together and nothing out of position. I guess I shouldn't have been so hard on the Project Consultants guys, but it is apparent to me that even if theirs are just so, a certain number of customers are almost guaranteed to have "issues" with the strings hitting the springs or the height hardware. Issues that not even a really talented luthier can address.

You know, I think I may try this plate and saddles on the one remaining "Cubic Zirc" that has a stock plate at present. I am having problems getting the stock plate off that one and expect to have blemished paint under the long plate that would be exposed. It looks like this at present:



That will free those bent steel saddles up so they can go on a Strat that could use them. I am beginning to see that this Aluminum saddles mod may sound better than those steel saddles on a Telecaster.

['59 NOS]

Boris,

Do you really think the mechanical properties and/or machinability of the "cereal grade" plates you've drilled into, give the "bland, fake piano emptiness" you imagine?

I don't get where you're going with this. Faced with that question, you choose to ignore it so I'm not sure you do either.

[Ricky D.]

Originally Posted by '59 NOS

Boris,

Do you really think the mechanical properties and/or machinability of the "cereal grade" plates you've drilled into, give the "bland, fake piano emptiness" you imagine?

I don't get where you're going with this. Faced with that question, you choose to ignore it so I'm not sure you do either.

You've got to be kidding, right?

[mrmorrison]

Originally Posted by '59 NOS

Boris,

Do you really think the mechanical properties and/or machinability of the "cereal grade" plates you've drilled into, give the "bland, fake piano emptiness" you imagine?

I don't get where you're going with this. Faced with that question, you choose to ignore it so I'm not sure you do either.

Clearly, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed...

[boris bubbanov]

No, it is OK. I want to get people talking about the subject, and so I've pushed some buttons.

We know that some incredibly talented and successful people have used the "cereal grade"
powdered (but chromed) brass Am Se Tele bridge plate over the years to create some wonderful recordings.

But I can't believe I'm the first person to tear one apart and try and figure out what it is and why it sounds like it does.

I don't have the answers, and I'm looking for them. Any way I can.

But maybe 59 NOS is right, maybe the problem with this one component (as opposed to the others I use) is not the way it was designed or manufactured. Maybe it is my tone that's the problem.

And he's also right about, if I dislike it so much, why did I resurrect it? I don't know. I'm looking at this, and trying to learn from it.

[Zeonoid]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

No, it is OK. I want to get people talking about the subject, and so I've pushed some buttons.

We know that some incredibly talented and successful people have used the "cereal grade"
powdered (but chromed) brass Am Se Tele bridge plate over the years to create some wonderful recordings.

But I can't believe I'm the first person to tear one apart and try and figure out what it is and why it sounds like it does.

I don't have the answers, and I'm looking for them. Any way I can.

But maybe 59 NOS is right, maybe the problem with this one component (as opposed to the others I use) is not the way it was designed or manufactured. Maybe it is my tone that's the problem.

And he's also right about, if I dislike it so much, why did I resurrect it? I don't know. I'm looking at this, and trying to learn from it.

Comon guys... I dont know why you still try to mess up with three saddles bridges. You might say it makes your tele sounds different but have you tried all the available 6 saddlebridges? I wouldnt say so- there are plenty versions that are equipped with massive saddles almost bricks of solid metal to tiny vintage saddles. I tried around 5 versions and I got practicly any sound I was looking for. Even tele artist like Keith Richards or Jeff Buckley moved to 6 saddles bridges (both to GOTOH ***) to get fat and articulated sound.

[Zeonoid]

Originally Posted by boris bubbanov

No, it is OK. I want to get people talking about the subject, and so I've pushed some buttons.

We know that some incredibly talented and successful people have used the "cereal grade"
powdered (but chromed) brass Am Se Tele bridge plate over the years to create some wonderful recordings.

But I can't believe I'm the first person to tear one apart and try and figure out what it is and why it sounds like it does.

I don't have the answers, and I'm looking for them. Any way I can.

But maybe 59 NOS is right, maybe the problem with this one component (as opposed to the others I use) is not the way it was designed or manufactured. Maybe it is my tone that's the problem.

And he's also right about, if I dislike it so much, why did I resurrect it? I don't know. I'm looking at this, and trying to learn from it.

Comon guys... I dont know why you still try to mess up with three saddles bridges. You might say it makes your tele sounds different but have you tried all the available 6 saddlebridges? I wouldnt say so- there are plenty versions that are equipped with massive saddles almost bricks of solid metal to tiny vintage saddles. I tried around 5 versions and I got practicly any sound I was looking for. Even tele artist like Keith Richards or Jeff Buckley moved to 6 saddles bridges (both to GOTOH japan) to get fat and articulated sound.

[boris bubbanov]

Originally Posted by Zeonoid

Comon guys... I dont know why you still try to mess up with three saddles bridges. You might say it makes your tele sounds different but have you tried all the available 6 saddlebridges? I wouldnt say so- there are plenty versions that are equipped with massive saddles almost bricks of solid metal to tiny vintage saddles. I tried around 5 versions and I got practicly any sound I was looking for. Even tele artist like Keith Richards or Jeff Buckley moved to 6 saddles bridges (both to GOTOH japan) to get fat and articulated sound.

I will try the Gotoh on the right guitar. Eventually. I'm leaning towards trying it on that one piece walnut guitar that's missing.........something.

I would like to catch the tone of the guitar on the Rolling Stones' 'Citadel'. That's a good one.

[boris bubbanov]

OK, the Vintage plate is back where it was, and that Cubic Zirc now has a maple Am Se neck on her. (She's awaiting a new set of strings but looks cool.

Meanwhile, this funny Am Se bridge plate with aluminum offset barrel saddles has been sanded even more flat on the bottom, had two top corner holes drilled in it for vintage style neck pickup screws, and has been installed on the final "Cubic Zirc", the one that gets a long plate because the finish is spoiled where it would show on a short plate. Keystones, 1 inch Fatback Warmoth neck.

Hey, this sounds really neat!

Ooops!

[boris bubbanov]

I wish I liked the looks of a long plate, but I don't.

This sounds excellent; I think brass on brass (like a 6-2-3 GT saddle set) is too mid rangey, no twang. I like this sound a lot although I may experiment with a bronze or brass B-little E saddle for it:

[spankdplank]

Boris--I have a lot of teles and none have the modern long plate, nor do I expect to ever have a long plate tele. However, I very much enjoy your experiments in The Quest For Tone, and your insights on why things sound they way we think they do. Keep up the good work and thanks for sharing.

[boris bubbanov]

Surprisingly good sounding. In a way, NOS 59 might be on to something. Once the front of the plate was fastened down and Keystones were used, everything seemed to change.

Thanks for the encouragement, spankdplank!

[yegbert]

Here's a saddle variation on a bridge I've been experimenting with recently. It's the Barden steel bridgeplate made for American Standard Teles, which is apparently a relatively new product. The three brass saddle setup in the second picture is what it came with. The six block saddles are Gotoh S21 steel 10.5mm x 20mm. I want to try the Gotoh S11 saddles which are the same (or virtually the same) size but brass, but I can't find them. Mojo says they will be expanding their Gotoh products later this year and may have them then.

With that plate and the six block saddles my perception is the Tele had a lot less harmonically rich tone, than now with the 3 barrels. I'll post a couple more pics momentarily for more of this story...

[yegbert]

The first bridgeplate here is a noname clone of the Tele vintage 6-barrel bridge design and has the Fender steel saddles from a reissue of one of those bridges. The second is a Mighty Mite vintage style 3-saddle plate with RS Guitarworks steel saddles.

I get a similarly harmonically rich tone on the Tele with the 3 steel barrels here, as I do on the Tele with the Barden plate and 3 brass barrels. The Fender 6 barrel setup sounds more like the Barden plate with 6 block saddles.

My experience with the variations here lead me to a theory which I had heard others express, but hadn't hitherto paid much attention. That is, that the sharing of a saddle by a pair of strings tends to produce more harmonics, than when strings are on separate saddles.

[boris bubbanov]

I agree about the shared barrels having more overtones.

I need to do a couple more sets of the 3 string barrels and get a better feel for how these compare to one and two barrel designs.

[yegbert]

I have the bridge that came off this '05 Squier Standard Tele:



I plan to drill that spare flat bridgeplate for a 3-saddle setup and put it on this '03 Squier Standard Tele, which still has the stock bridge assembly shown here:



Both of those Teles have the Mighty Mite pickups in them now, that were in them when they came from the factory; and both have 250k CTS pots. The difference in their tone now seems to be that the '05 with its 3 saddles has more harmonics. Their eq seems about the same. I even have two identical sets of the RS Guitarworks steel saddles for them.

[yegbert]

I've fitted my '03 with the spare thick plate and RS Guitarworks steel barrels. So now I have two Squier Standard Teles that have virtually the same parts on them with the exception of the bridge plates. My initial impression is that the harmonics are now about the same on the two Teles.

[boris bubbanov]

I apologize for post # 17, as it is nonsense.

I was supposed to say, I will try a couple more 2 barrel types, to see how they compare to the 3 and 6 barrel versions. Or shall we say do a 3 strings per barrel type, and see how that compares to 2 strings and one string per barrel - I think that was what I meant.

Yegbert, I think when the plate material is always steel, things stand a far better chance of having a similar sound. I like the way yours looks, as the facet or beveled compensated E-A saddle is much less likely to get into trouble being too close to the down or string through hole - the angled ones I've done have strings all but wrapping around the saddle to hurry up and get down the thru hole.