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Old January 19th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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How to tell if pickups are out of phase

I plan to put a Lace Sensor Silver (reverse wound) pickup in the neck and a Seymour Duncan Hot Rails pickup in the bridge. I have everything outside of the body of my guitar right now, and have attached the wires just by twisting them without soldering to see if everything works. I am worried about soldering everything together and then discovering that the pickups are out of phase with each other. From what I've read when pickups are out of phase the volume drops a lot and it sounds thin. I've tried using both different wires from the neck pickup as the hot and ground leads, and everytime the pickups sound the same, which is to say in phase. Obviously I don't have any strings over them so I'm just checking by tapping on the pickups. Is it possible that no matter what I can't have out of phase pickups with this combination? The Hot Rails is a humbucker and it has 2 extra leads for coil splitting but the instructions said to just twist them together.

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Old January 20th, 2009, 12:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You can't tell by tapping on the pickups. You will only be able to verify it with strings on the guitar. It has to do with the wavelength of the vibrating string relative to the pickup position.

String your guitar and play it with the twisted wires, then reverse polarity of one pickup and compare. If it is neck the and bridge pickup together (not a middle pickup), you can definitely tell it is out of phase by the weak nasally sound.
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Old January 20th, 2009, 01:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is a bit of Overkill for just once and awhile...but I do it a lot, and these two homemade devices make life a little easier for me. The one is just a bandsawed pc. of Oak, with a tuner and string attached...and the Guitar ?...is an old Pawn Shop deal, strung up w/ 6 strings and a Dobro nut spacer, to allow Pickguards, etc to slide underneath....works well for testing phase, etc.... and don't laugh at my carpenter Pencil bridge spacer....


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Old January 22nd, 2009, 08:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Also I might add, I recently did this Build w/ a SD 59 Bucker in the Neck Position and intentionally wired it out of phase, just to try...and w/ 250K pots, it's a Pretty usable sound option...not as much volume drop as when 2 singles are out of phase...jest sumptin different ??

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Old January 23rd, 2009, 10:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This is a bit of Overkill for just once and awhile...but I do it a lot, and these two homemade devices make life a little easier for me. The one is just a bandsawed pc. of Oak, with a tuner and string attached...and the Guitar ?...is an old Pawn Shop deal, strung up w/ 6 strings and a Dobro nut spacer, to allow Pickguards, etc to slide underneath....works well for testing phase, etc.... and don't laugh at my carpenter Pencil bridge spacer....
....
Genius!!!! So, I'm guessing you can slide an entire Strat pickguard underneath that puppy???
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 02:56 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Genius!!!! So, I'm guessing you can slide an entire Strat pickguard underneath that puppy???
Yeppers !....or if tuned to open G....Use it as an Acoustic Dobro w/ a Real Quiet Bluegrass Band......
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Old January 23rd, 2009, 03:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeppers !....or if tuned to open G....Use it as an Acoustic Dobro w/ a Real Quiet Bluegrass Band......

Do we keep the carpenter's pencil in there for bluegrass gigs ??



"Oak, with a tuner and string attached"

I think you need to do a sparkle finish on that...

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Old January 24th, 2009, 06:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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could i maybe lay the pickups face up on a table and put the strings of another guitar over them?
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Old January 24th, 2009, 11:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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could i maybe lay the pickups face up on a table and put the strings of another guitar over them?
Sure could...I used to do that (still do sometimes)
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Old January 25th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #10 (permalink)
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okay i just tried the string thing and same result: the pickups sounded the same together no matter what wire i use as the hot one.
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Old January 25th, 2009, 11:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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recently acquired a 52 reissue.....when 3 way switch is in the middle the volume goes down and the sound is very thin and hollow-anyone have a link to a standard wiring diagram

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Old January 28th, 2009, 09:40 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
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recently acquired a 52 reissue.....when 3 way switch is in the middle the volume goes down and the sound is very thin and hollow-anyone have a link to a standard wiring diagram
Code:
http://www.fender.com/support/wiring_diagrams_parts_lists.php
hope this helps...
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Old January 28th, 2009, 08:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you connect the pickup to an old style analog multimeter, set the needle so it's somewhere in the middle (mess with the zero knob). Then tap the pickup and the needle should jump to one side or the other, and when two pickups behave the same for this test, they're in phase. Sorry I don't remember if it's on voltage or resistance it's been awhile (can't be done with a digital multimeter).
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Old January 28th, 2009, 09:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you connect the pickup to an old style analog multimeter, set the needle so it's somewhere in the middle (mess with the zero knob). Then tap the pickup and the needle should jump to one side or the other, and when two pickups behave the same for this test, they're in phase. Sorry I don't remember if it's on voltage or resistance it's been awhile (can't be done with a digital multimeter).

Or just bring a screw drive close to the poles across them all, the meter will jump [ohms setting] one way or the other, to the neg or positive. Or jump up from the zero setting. If it hits the stop reverse the lead to the multi tester so it goes away from the stop. Do it on another PUP, If the other pup does the opposite [jumps neg instead of positive needle move] it is Reverse Polarity from the 1st. It should be Reverse Wound as well but not necessarily.

Also, which is north/start of the coil [from my collection of saved stuff]:

When you hook up the multi meter to the two wires and then bring the screw driver blade (metal) towards the pole pieces. You should see the meter kick UP (positive). If it kicks DOWN (negative) then flip the meter leads.

When you have it kicking up, the lead attached to the meter + is the start.

YMMV, But I doubt it.
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Old January 28th, 2009, 09:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Oh, and there is the

Schatten Magnet Polarity Tester @ Stew Mac

But you could still need to check the wires for phase when 2 pup are wired together.
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Old January 28th, 2009, 10:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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not sure if I remember this right but I read something about finding the reverse wound pickup in a sratt set by if the magnets repel or atract when held face to face.I,m thinking in phase pickups should repel
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Old January 28th, 2009, 10:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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strat set not sratt set
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Old January 28th, 2009, 10:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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http://www.skguitar.com/SKGS/sk/Pick...or%20codes.htm then theres this
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Old January 28th, 2009, 10:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old January 29th, 2009, 08:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
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well the pickup im using in the neck is a reverse wound lace sensor pickup, which usually go in the middle of strats. the front of both pickups are attracted to each other. my voltmeter is broken >:(
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