Why didn't my decal work?

[WrayGun]

I put mine on over a cured tru-oil finish, then put several more coats of tru-oil over it. No problem at all. Of course, mine was vinyl, not waterslide.

[Gr8tfulEd]

Waterslide decals are an interesting animal. I build WWII scale aircraft as a hobby, and getting the decals to set properly is absolutely essential. There are "tricks" to the trade.

First, it is necessary to recognize that the reason a decal "fogs" is because of air trapped under the decal. The difference in height between the surface texture causes the light to refract differently. This causes the appearance of fogging. To avoid this, it is necessary to apply the decal on as smooth a surface as possible, to mitigate the microscopic pits and peaks in any finish. In military modeling, where most subjects should have a flat finish, it is necessary to apply the decal over a gloss finish first, apply the decal, then spray or apply a flat finish afterwords.

I've also seen surfaces sanded super smooth too, but generally the gloss application is preferable.

For guitars, I see two options: sand the wood until it is glass smooth; or, apply a clear gloss coat first, then apply the decal, then apply another coat of gloss.

[PJ]

Get a can of StewMac spray nitro, put a couple of thin coats on it, steel wool the edges unitl they blend, put a third coat on, steel wool and buff. You shouldn't see any edges when you're done.

[scubadoo]

The problem isn't that the edge is visible, it's that the whole of the backing is fogged so I don't think that will make any difference. The example in the photo had been sanded and polised.

Does anyone have a link to good paper? I checked the link from Martyb1 but he doesn't have any for sale at the moment.

[tuuur]

I used Testors decal paper for my decals:
http://www.tudayshobbymodels.com/prd_decal_paper_8511

Turned out like this:

[HiggyDude]

I've used Testors waterslide paper for inkjet printers and Clear laser Waterslide Decal Paper from www.decalpaper.com. The Laser paper isn't cheap - $22.99 for 25 sheets plus shipping but I couldn't find laser waterslide anywhere else. At least I'll have enough decals until I'm dead and gone...

I have put a Testors decal on an AllParts neck that I finished in Deft nitro. I originally wasn't going to put a decal on the headstock then changed my mind. I scuffed up the area for the decal with 600 grit and applied the decal. I then sprayed a mist coat on it. The Testors paper needs to have the printing sealed - the guy at the hobby shop I bought it from told me the Testor's sealer is just lacquer and I could use any rattle can lacquer - so Deft it was. The laser paper does not need a sealer.

I have sprayed many coats and scraped and sanded the edges to get the feathering effect. If you turn the headstock a certain way you can see the outline of the decal - but after working on it for a few weeks I'm gonna live with that...

[Old Cane]

Originally Posted by scubadoo

The problem isn't that the edge is visible, it's that the whole of the backing is fogged so I don't think that will make any difference. The example in the photo had been sanded and polised.

Does anyone have a link to good paper? I checked the link from Martyb1 but he doesn't have any for sale at the moment.

What I was getting at is that mine looked like this (hazy) also. The clear over it fixed the problem. Maybe I didn't say that well enough. If you plan on sanding it off anyway why not try putting clear over it first?

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

What I was getting at is that mine looked like this (hazy) also. The clear over it fixed the problem. Maybe I didn't say that well enough. If you plan on sanding it off anyway why not try putting clear over it first?

It's had numerous coats of clear and has been sanded about 3 times and recoated until level.

[Old Cane]

Ooops. Sorry. I thought you were missing my point and all the while I was missing yours. I thought you meant you had only clearcoated the decal before you applied it, not after. So I guess try, try again. Bummer to have to do that.

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Old Cane

Ooops. Sorry. I thought you were missing my point and all the while I was missing yours. I thought you meant you had only clearcoated the decal before you applied it, not after. So I guess try, try again. Bummer to have to do that.

it's a right pain, and i haven't found a better brand yet.

[Ironwolf]

Originally Posted by HiggyDude

I've used Testors waterslide paper for inkjet printers and Clear laser Waterslide Decal Paper from www.decalpaper.com. The Laser paper isn't cheap - $22.99 for 25 sheets plus shipping but I couldn't find laser waterslide anywhere else. At least I'll have enough decals until I'm dead and gone...

It's probably the quality of decal film. The stuff I use (made for Laser printers) costs $12 for three sheets, 7$ for 1 sheet. I buy it at the local HobbyTown USA.

[Jim Shine]

Sometimes this happens when there isn't much adhesive. The decal dries having mostly water underneath, the water evaporates and leaves mostly air underneath.

It always pays to add a drop of Elmers white glue (not wood glue) to the water you are soaking the decal in. It will add additional adhesive. Let it dry overnight and remove any glue film that dried around the decal with a compound or polish (not Maguires #7 though, it eats waterslide decals).

You should be able to get this same logo looking better. Take a small brush and wet the decal and its immediate surrounding area with warm water. After a few minutes the logo should release from the headstock face. Add some very watered down white glue to the area and work it under the decal. Then smooth it out and let it dry overnight. Clean up the haze as described above.

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by Jim Shine

You should be able to get this same logo looking better. Take a small brush and wet the decal and its immediate surrounding area with warm water. After a few minutes the logo should release from the headstock face. Add some very watered down white glue to the area and work it under the decal. Then smooth it out and let it dry overnight. Clean up the haze as described above.

Thanks Jim, but the decal has already been clearcoated.

I ordered some different decal paper, but when it arrived this morning it turned out it's the same stuff.

Are there any UK builders who can recommend a good supplier/brand?

[crispy king]

Where did you order your rubbish paper from, so I know to avoid it?

[scubadoo]

I got the second sheet from Crafty Computer Paper, can't remember where i got the first. I've just sanded it all off, re-stained and am now clearcoating. I'm going to try again with the same paper and see what happens if i allow it to dry for longer.

[scubadoo]

Well I'm trying again, albeit with the same paper. This time I'm going to leave the decal for 24 hours before spraying clear.

When i angle the headstock the underside of the decal looks very slightly pitted, we'll see what it's like when it's dried.



edit: i guess the texture i'm seeing might be the clear that i sealed the decal with?

[scubadoo]

Well this is how it looks after 24 hours



but when angled it stands out



I've realised that the actual paper has a stippled texture. Is this the problem? Is the Testor's paper perfectly flat and smooth. I'm not sure wether to clear coat or not.

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by newtwanger

On eBay someone sells ws paper that has a kid with an umbrella on the package. this stuff is as good as you get for inkjet paper..

Do you know who that seller is?

[scubadoo]

Originally Posted by HiggyDude

I have sprayed many coats and scraped and sanded the edges to get the feathering effect. If you turn the headstock a certain way you can see the outline of the decal - but after working on it for a few weeks I'm gonna live with that...

Is it just the outline you can see or does the whole decal stand out?

[Rich Rice]

I didn't read the entire thread, so if this is redundant, I apologize.

From time to time I'll get a decal that has that hazy look beneath, and there is no way I know of to clear it up. I always wind up yanking it, and doing better prep work on the headstock before applying a new one. Works every time. From this experience, I have come to the conclusion that if you want it to be really nice and clear (sometimes the haze can be desirable) the face of the headstock must be completely sealed before application of the decal. Not with an oil, it needs a few coats of sanding sealer. If the moisture from the decal adhesive can penetrate the wood, it spells T R O U B L E. Once the decal is attached, you won't get anything under it to clear up the haze. It's sealed. Clear coats on top of it will not clarify the haze that is underneath.

I always dust a couple of coats of nitro over my decals before I cut them apart, and that helps the lacquer blend on the surface- as well as acting as a spray-fixative to protect the image.