Refreting a 52RI

frogger · February 24th, 2008, 08:46 PM

Has anyone replaced the vintage size frets with medium or jumbos? I'm thinking about a replacement for mine to make string bending easier and to get a bit more sustain. My tech is a real pro and suggests that I go with medium frets. I love my Tele but those tiny stock frets could be better.

boris bubbanov · February 24th, 2008, 09:07 PM

Your tech may have in mind giving you a real sweet price. If not, and the existing frets are sound, it might make better economics to buy a Tele neck from Tommy or Musickraft, Warmoth or even Allparts with the 6125s or 6150s you crave. IF you found the stock neck wasn't so bad, you can sell off the aftermarket neck. If the aftermarket neck is the answer, you can 'park' the AV52 neck until such time as you're ready for a change. A super low mileage neck might make your AV52 a serious target for the buyers one day 12 years from now.

mowcheeba · February 24th, 2008, 09:20 PM

I haven't refretted my USACG neck(which is more or less a replica
of my old 52RI neck) but when or if I do I am considering medium
frets. I press really hard when playing so with jumbo frets I am afraid
I would press the notes sharp. I really like the small vintage
frets, especially the fretboard feel one gets. However a little easier
bends would be nice :)

But, like boris bubbanov said I might have to buy a new neck from
USACG because it would be almost cheaper.(And I can order that full
1" U-shaped neck I did not dare to order the first time)

eryque · February 24th, 2008, 11:06 PM

When I first got used to vintage frets I found that I liked them better, but I also found that I needed a higher action to make the strings bend as easily as I wanted. This made the action high enough that it was impossible to make play in tune higher than about the 7th fret, so now I've found new joy in truly huge frets. The frets I bought from Stew Mac were the biggest they have, just a little bit taller than the 6105 spec.

You'll find that swapping the neck will cost about the same as a refret. Whichever way you go, make sure that you get specs on the height of the frets. Words like "medium" or "medium jumbo" are too ambiguous. A lot of frets that fall into the "medium jumbo" category are barely any taller than the small frets on your 52RI, but they're much wider. If you don't get specific enough, you may find that you go through a lot of time and expense to get something that doesn't play much differently than what you have now.

Robert(og) · February 25th, 2008, 03:27 AM

and remember that if you go with a tall fret, then you are looking at having a new nut made.

eddiewagner · February 25th, 2008, 10:14 AM

my 2 cruzieros of german advice: leave it as it is!!!!!!
in other words: don´t mess up a good thang......

frogger · February 25th, 2008, 07:06 PM

Good advice from all.....thank you guys. Never dawned on me to get another neck but it sure makes sense. Think I will leave it stock and buy a really good neck with with the frets I want. Vintage frets are ok in some regards you just have to work a bit harder with them.

fenderguy · February 25th, 2008, 07:39 PM

You could also buy a used baja neck.. it has the same stickers and tree and tuners as a 52.. But with large frets...

eryque · February 25th, 2008, 08:00 PM

Good call, fenderguy. The frets aren't super huge, but they are pretty good sized and the profile of the neck is similar to the 52RI.

bradpdx · February 25th, 2008, 08:20 PM

Funny this post comes up - I just had the third set of frets put in my old 52RI this last week. I considered a new neck, but didn't want to change the sound and feel of my old friend.

I got the guitar new in May 1982 when they had just come out, and it's been a longtime favorite of mine. The original frets were of course vintage style, and I was gigging quite a bit back then. By 1989 the frets were just gone and I had them redone the first time with jumbo wire.

At that time I worked for Alembic guitars and basses, designing electronics. The Alembic master neck guy at the time, Bob Malone, refretted the Tele and flattened the radius by a small amount. The difference was huge; the guitar became more authoritative and I could bend, bend, bend right in tune all night long. He corrected some issues with neck relief that really made it a great guitar.

The biggest pain in the rear was of course refinishing the fingerboard. Bob devised a "vintage stain" over which clear lacquer was applied. It looked older than before, and that was fine by me.

Here it is 2008 and those frets have been badly worn down for at least the last 5 years. I took it to 12th Fret guitar here in Portland, where fretmaster Dave Zogg replaced the old jumbos with Stew-Mac 141 wire. This wire is thinner than the old 6105 wire, but fairly tall (0.045").

I specifically didn't want him to refinish the fingerboard again. This means that there are visible "scars" around each fret from where the old ones were. It also means that the edges of the neck are now more worn and finish-free than before. This makes the neck look more worn, but that is no problem for me.

The verdict? Damn, it plays great once again. Intonation is spot on and string bends - don't get me started! Best of all, it is my old Telecaster - same feel, same tone, just better. Rings for days.

Do what you want, but remember that the neck is a critical part of the guitar. Change it, and the instrument changes. It's a risk.

mowcheeba · February 25th, 2008, 11:13 PM

Great post, bradpdx! Fun reading. I also would have a hard time not refretting
when the time comes. The neck on my USACG Tele is already such
a part of the guitar that like you say, change the neck and it changes the guitar.
I doubt it could get any better than it is now.:) However prices on refret
are fairly high so I might get a new neck just to go fatter.
I play hard and press the fingerboard a lot so I'm worried I'll be facing
a refret within 2-3 years.

FredDairy · March 3rd, 2008, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bradpdx

Funny this post comes up - I just had the third set of frets put in my old 52RI this last week. I considered a new neck, but didn't want to change the sound and feel of my old friend.

I got the guitar new in May 1982 when they had just come out, and it's been a longtime favorite of mine. The original frets were of course vintage style, and I was gigging quite a bit back then. By 1989 the frets were just gone and I had them redone the first time with jumbo wire.

At that time I worked for Alembic guitars and basses, designing electronics. The Alembic master neck guy at the time, Bob Malone, refretted the Tele and flattened the radius by a small amount. The difference was huge; the guitar became more authoritative and I could bend, bend, bend right in tune all night long. He corrected some issues with neck relief that really made it a great guitar.

The biggest pain in the rear was of course refinishing the fingerboard. Bob devised a "vintage stain" over which clear lacquer was applied. It looked older than before, and that was fine by me.

Here it is 2008 and those frets have been badly worn down for at least the last 5 years. I took it to 12th Fret guitar here in Portland, where fretmaster Dave Zogg replaced the old jumbos with Stew-Mac 141 wire. This wire is thinner than the old 6105 wire, but fairly tall (0.045").

I specifically didn't want him to refinish the fingerboard again. This means that there are visible "scars" around each fret from where the old ones were. It also means that the edges of the neck are now more worn and finish-free than before. This makes the neck look more worn, but that is no problem for me.

The verdict? Damn, it plays great once again. Intonation is spot on and string bends - don't get me started! Best of all, it is my old Telecaster - same feel, same tone, just better. Rings for days.

Do what you want, but remember that the neck is a critical part of the guitar. Change it, and the instrument changes. It's a risk.

Do you have any pictures of that '52? Love to see it.

Rob DiStefano · March 3rd, 2008, 07:51 PM

IMHO, if you know what fret crown size works best for you, and you haven't tried those fret sizes that others have opined to ya, stick with what works and save time, money and aggravation. I do believe the soul of a guitar is in the neck, and every specification of a neck comes together to make it what it is and whether or not it'll suit ya. YMMV.

PS - Rhetorically, what does "medium jumbo frets" mean? Depends on who's asking or telling.

Stick to dimensional fret crown values and save even more grief.

February 24th, 2008, 08:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
frogger Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lincoln Nebraska Posts: 420	Refreting a 52RI Has anyone replaced the vintage size frets with medium or jumbos? I'm thinking about a replacement for mine to make string bending easier and to get a bit more sustain. My tech is a real pro and suggests that I go with medium frets. I love my Tele but those tiny stock frets could be better.

February 24th, 2008, 09:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 8,555	Your tech may have in mind giving you a real sweet price. If not, and the existing frets are sound, it might make better economics to buy a Tele neck from Tommy or Musickraft, Warmoth or even Allparts with the 6125s or 6150s you crave. IF you found the stock neck wasn't so bad, you can sell off the aftermarket neck. If the aftermarket neck is the answer, you can 'park' the AV52 neck until such time as you're ready for a change. A super low mileage neck might make your AV52 a serious target for the buyers one day 12 years from now. __________________ Bubban0v

February 24th, 2008, 09:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
mowcheeba Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Norway/Sweden-Temporarily Age: 31 Posts: 721 48 Photos	I haven't refretted my USACG neck(which is more or less a replica of my old 52RI neck) but when or if I do I am considering medium frets. I press really hard when playing so with jumbo frets I am afraid I would press the notes sharp. I really like the small vintage frets, especially the fretboard feel one gets. However a little easier bends would be nice :) But, like boris bubbanov said I might have to buy a new neck from USACG because it would be almost cheaper.(And I can order that full 1" U-shaped neck I did not dare to order the first time) Last edited by mowcheeba; February 25th, 2008 at 06:59 AM.

February 24th, 2008, 11:06 PM	#4 (permalink)
eryque Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: albany, ny [not chicago] Posts: 7,126 44 Photos	When I first got used to vintage frets I found that I liked them better, but I also found that I needed a higher action to make the strings bend as easily as I wanted. This made the action high enough that it was impossible to make play in tune higher than about the 7th fret, so now I've found new joy in truly huge frets. The frets I bought from Stew Mac were the biggest they have, just a little bit taller than the 6105 spec. You'll find that swapping the neck will cost about the same as a refret. Whichever way you go, make sure that you get specs on the height of the frets. Words like "medium" or "medium jumbo" are too ambiguous. A lot of frets that fall into the "medium jumbo" category are barely any taller than the small frets on your 52RI, but they're much wider. If you don't get specific enough, you may find that you go through a lot of time and expense to get something that doesn't play much differently than what you have now. __________________ my blog: eryque.blogspot.com Updated 9.17.08! Subscribe_____________________

February 25th, 2008, 10:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
eddiewagner Friend of Leo's Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: ROCK!linghausen/germany Age: 50 Posts: 4,016 27 Photos	my 2 cruzieros of german advice: leave it as it is!!!!!! in other words: don´t mess up a good thang...... __________________ My Drum/Guitar-Duo: www.myspace.com/captaintwangandhisrhythmcat

February 25th, 2008, 03:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
Robert(og) Tele-Meister Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: crawfordsville In. Age: 22 Posts: 128	and remember that if you go with a tall fret, then you are looking at having a new nut made.

February 25th, 2008, 07:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
frogger Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2003 Location: Lincoln Nebraska Posts: 420	Good advice from all.....thank you guys. Never dawned on me to get another neck but it sure makes sense. Think I will leave it stock and buy a really good neck with with the frets I want. Vintage frets are ok in some regards you just have to work a bit harder with them.

February 25th, 2008, 07:39 PM	#8 (permalink)
fenderguy Tele-Meister Join Date: May 2006 Location: cincinnati, ohio Age: 36 Posts: 221	You could also buy a used baja neck.. it has the same stickers and tree and tuners as a 52.. But with large frets...

February 25th, 2008, 08:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
eryque Poster Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: albany, ny [not chicago] Posts: 7,126 44 Photos	Good call, fenderguy. The frets aren't super huge, but they are pretty good sized and the profile of the neck is similar to the 52RI. __________________ my blog: eryque.blogspot.com Updated 9.17.08! Subscribe_____________________

February 25th, 2008, 08:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
bradpdx Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Portland, OR Age: 50 Posts: 876 1 Photos	Funny this post comes up - I just had the third set of frets put in my old 52RI this last week. I considered a new neck, but didn't want to change the sound and feel of my old friend. I got the guitar new in May 1982 when they had just come out, and it's been a longtime favorite of mine. The original frets were of course vintage style, and I was gigging quite a bit back then. By 1989 the frets were just gone and I had them redone the first time with jumbo wire. At that time I worked for Alembic guitars and basses, designing electronics. The Alembic master neck guy at the time, Bob Malone, refretted the Tele and flattened the radius by a small amount. The difference was huge; the guitar became more authoritative and I could bend, bend, bend right in tune all night long. He corrected some issues with neck relief that really made it a great guitar. The biggest pain in the rear was of course refinishing the fingerboard. Bob devised a "vintage stain" over which clear lacquer was applied. It looked older than before, and that was fine by me. Here it is 2008 and those frets have been badly worn down for at least the last 5 years. I took it to 12th Fret guitar here in Portland, where fretmaster Dave Zogg replaced the old jumbos with Stew-Mac 141 wire. This wire is thinner than the old 6105 wire, but fairly tall (0.045"). I specifically didn't want him to refinish the fingerboard again. This means that there are visible "scars" around each fret from where the old ones were. It also means that the edges of the neck are now more worn and finish-free than before. This makes the neck look more worn, but that is no problem for me. The verdict? Damn, it plays great once again. Intonation is spot on and string bends - don't get me started! Best of all, it is my old Telecaster - same feel, same tone, just better. Rings for days. Do what you want, but remember that the neck is a critical part of the guitar. Change it, and the instrument changes. It's a risk. __________________ ---------- Tech Geek and Sensitive Artiste String bender ordinare!

February 25th, 2008, 11:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
mowcheeba Tele-Holic Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Norway/Sweden-Temporarily Age: 31 Posts: 721 48 Photos	Great post, bradpdx! Fun reading. I also would have a hard time not refretting when the time comes. The neck on my USACG Tele is already such a part of the guitar that like you say, change the neck and it changes the guitar. I doubt it could get any better than it is now.:) However prices on refret are fairly high so I might get a new neck just to go fatter. I play hard and press the fingerboard a lot so I'm worried I'll be facing a refret within 2-3 years.

March 3rd, 2008, 07:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
Rob DiStefano Friend of Leo's Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Park Ridge, NJ Age: 62 Posts: 4,788	IMHO, if you know what fret crown size works best for you, and you haven't tried those fret sizes that others have opined to ya, stick with what works and save time, money and aggravation. I do believe the soul of a guitar is in the neck, and every specification of a neck comes together to make it what it is and whether or not it'll suit ya. YMMV. PS - Rhetorically, what does "medium jumbo frets" mean? Depends on who's asking or telling. Stick to dimensional fret crown values and save even more grief.