Intonation Confusion

[Wei-Ming]

Hello all! I'm not sure whether this is the right forum to post this up.. So if it happens to be wrong, please forgive me.

I've recently got a Tele. and the intonation is very off.. I've read up online about it and tried to fix it myself.
The 4th, 5th and 6th strings are the problem. But the most off is my A string.. When the 12th fret harmonic is in tune, my fretted 12th note is towards sharp..

I have tried placing my bridge saddle closer to the neck and also further.. But the problem doesn't seem to go away...

There's some pics below of my bridge.. Hope someone could help me out here. Thanks a bunch!

[viking]

When something acts weird reg intonation , always change the strings , if you havent already changed them.

[Wei-Ming]

Hey there Viking.. Yeah that's strange.. I got this problem when I changed my strings last week..
Only thing with that stringing was that my strings slipped out from the bridge saddle a few times when I was tuning up cause the string was still loose.. And I've changed to the locking method type stringing

[eryque]

First thing you need to check is your action and truss rod relief. If those are off you'll never get it to intonate right.

[Wei-Ming]

My neck is absolutely straight
What should I set my action to? According to Fender's average measurements for Telecasters?

[Highway_61]

You say that you are moving your saddle both towards and away, but even the smallest increments of towards and away will make a difference. Therefore, don't start playing with the truss rod. Just be sure, if you aren't already doing so, to try very small increments of adjustment, likening it to the fine tuners on violins.
All of that being said, do know, too, that, every once in a while, a new strings will be imperfect. For example, a tech I know says that that is why he doesn't like to use DR strings: occasionally, he will come across a string that just will not intonate.

[Wei-Ming]

Not to worry, I'm not messing with my truss rod, yet.. Haha no, really..
I think I'll change my bass-side strings and see what happens. Thanks for the tip

[beep.click]

Originally Posted by Wei-Ming

When the 12th fret harmonic is in tune, my fretted 12th note is towards sharp..

I have tried placing my bridge saddle closer to the neck and also further.. But the problem doesn't seem to go away...

If the fretted note is sharp, you have to place the saddle FURTHER from the neck. Then re-tune, and re-check.

Let us know what happens after the string change...

[Wei-Ming]

Originally Posted by beep.click

If the fretted note is sharp, you have to place the saddle FURTHER from the neck. Then re-tune, and re-check.

Let us know what happens after the string change...

Okay thanks for the confirmation..
I only did both cause some sites said closer, some sites said further..
I'm changing them now, will let you guys know soon

Funny thing was.. I was using Super Slinkys all this while... Recently, couldn't get Slinkys and I needed strings.. So I got D'Addario XLs.... And when I used them, this happened.. I still prefer the feel of Slinkys though

[Wei-Ming]

Ah, got done with my 3 lower strings...
Strings A and E are still a bit off... And I can't bring the saddle back anymore.. What should I do now?

I do believe it was the strings.. I'm never gonna buy D'Addario!! Even though they're OK.. I will buy Super Slinkys next time..

Do you think I should replace my bridge saddles?
Because they're a bit loose even with string tension.. I can still nudge it a bit

[F1rocco]

Dunno....But to me the saddles look low

[Wei-Ming]

Originally Posted by F1rocco

Dunno....But to me the saddles look low

Hey F1rocco
Do you mean the action is low or it's too far from the neck?

[F1rocco]

Originally Posted by Wei-Ming

Hey F1rocco
Do you mean the action is low or it's too far from the neck?

Should be fine if your not getting any buzz....I guess...Just looks low...Maybe a deeper neck pocket allows you to go lower...

With Intonation on a bad set up I usually start high with the saddles and work down until I get close or a slight rattle with thin strings...9z to start....Later I move up to 10z....I like to hear Fenders with 9z at least once..

Everybody does it different I guess.......Works for me


But looking more at your pic...

Does the pickguard look normal to you peeps.....

Seems a little tight to the bridge(No Gap).....Dont think Ive seen a tele where the p/g mates to the bridge....

[Wei-Ming]

Originally Posted by F1rocco

Should be fine if your not getting any buzz....I guess...Just looks low...Maybe a deeper neck pocket allows you to go lower...

With Intonation on a bad set up I usually start high with the saddles and work down until I get close or a slight rattle with thin strings...9z to start....Later I move up to 10z....I like to hear Fenders with 9z at least once..

Everybody does it different I guess.......Works for me


But looking more at your pic...

Does the pickguard look normal to you peeps.....

Seems a little tight to the bridge(No Gap).....Dont think Ive seen a tele where the p/g mates to the bridge....

Sorry there, what do you mean by 9z and 10z?

My Tele's an MIJ model so maybe they crafted the positioning and the size of the pickguard and the bridge differently?

[0le FUZZY]

...Yer prollem iss knott yer strings!!

...Yer prollem iss those Elite style saddles.

...Yew haff tew cut the shank off of the end specially onna E, A & D sew yew kin go back further.

...Even on sum of the old style all screw fwd and aft screws yew hadda cut the spring in haff tew git em back fer enuff.




...Ain't noe weigh strings kin be yer prollem ----IMHO!!!






0le FUZZY

[Bogo]

Does everything sound OK except the harmonics if you set the intonation by fretting?
There's different opinions on what method to use for intonation - fretting or harmonics. Some say using harmonics is not representitive of actual playing pitch requirements. Be careful when fretting so you do not apply too much pressure.
I'm sure there's a lot of posts in old threads here that discuss the above.

[Wei-Ming]

Originally Posted by 0le FUZZY

...Yer prollem iss knott yer strings!!

...Yer prollem iss those Elite style saddles.

...Yew haff tew cut the shank off of the end specially onna E, A & D sew yew kin go back further.

...Even on sum of the old style all screw fwd and aft screws yew hadda cut the spring in haff tew git em back fer enuff.






0le FUZZY

I never thought of that! Might just give it a try! Or cut my springs like what Bogo said.. Thanks a lot Ole FUZZY!

Originally Posted by Bogo

Does everything sound OK except the harmonics if you set the intonation by fretting?
There's different opinions on what method to use for intonation - fretting or harmonics. Some say using harmonics is not representitive of actual playing pitch requirements. Be careful when fretting so you do not apply too much pressure.
I'm sure there's a lot of posts in old threads here that discuss the above.

Hey Bogo, first I tune my open string, then make sure my 12th fret harmonic is in tune, then I fret the 12th and compare it with the harmonic.. I shall try to compare my 12th fretted note to the open string. And good thing I didn't press too hard.. I only apple pressure till it touches the fret. Thanks for reminding

[boneyguy]

Originally Posted by 0le FUZZY

...Yer prollem iss knott yer strings!!

...Yer prollem iss those Elite style saddles.

...Yew haff tew cut the shank off of the end specially onna E, A & D sew yew kin go back further.

...Even on sum of the old style all screw fwd and aft screws yew hadda cut the spring in haff tew git em back fer enuff.






0le FUZZY

Yeah. Exactly what I was thinking. I've never seen saddles like that before.

[Wei-Ming]

How much would new saddles cost?

[Brick]

IMHO the harmonic has no bearing on the intonation. Setting the intonation is the relationship of the open note to the 12th fretted. Flat forward, sharp back is how I remember it. I'm with Fuzzy in that if you can't get the saddle back far enough you need to grind the metal off those spacers.

[F1rocco]

Any other pics of your Tele Wei......

Quit teasin us already with your top notch photography......Get that Tele to pose for us.....

[kevin barrett]

An excellent diagnosis by Olfuzzy ,I'd like to add that you might
consider adding a shim in the neck pocket.

This would allow you to raise the saddles a bit,as well. More pressure
from the strings creates more stable intonation and tuning in general.

Definately cut the saddles you have,moving them back is the answer

[0le FUZZY]

Originally Posted by kevin barrett

An excellent diagnosis by Olfuzzy ,I'd like to add that you might
consider adding a shim in the neck pocket.

This would allow you to raise the saddles a bit,as well. More pressure
from the strings creates more stable intonation and tuning in general.

Definately cut the saddles you have,moving them back is the answer

...Kevin iss kerrect ! The higher yew kin git those saddles onna top-loader the better off yew are. Break over angle iss increased thus creating less movement of those saddles. A shim will dew the trick.


0le FUZZY

[Colt W. Knight]

If it was me, I would just put a Fender bridge plate with 3 brass saddles on there.

[Wei-Ming]

Originally Posted by F1rocco

Any other pics of your Tele Wei......

Quit teasin us already with your top notch photography......Get that Tele to pose for us.....

Haha sure F1rocco, when I have the time I'll take some full body shots of my Tele and post them up.. Call me Ming please :D

Originally Posted by Colt W. Knight

If it was me, I would just put a Fender bridge plate with 3 brass saddles on there.

I don't think I've got enough money for that kinda upgrade