fret wire

[alk-3]

Hi everyone, I posed this in the main telecaster forum but got no reply, and I'm getting a bit desperate here.
I’ve got a Mexican tele from around 2001 or so, and it’s been my number one despite having several other "nicer" (i.e. American, more expensive) guitars. I’m at a stage where I’d like to keep the feel of the mexi one but have a better all round guitar. Can anyone tell me what year American telecaster has the same fret wire that my MIM one has?
Thanks a bunch!

[Rob DiStefano]

Nearly impossible to tell, as most guitar manufacturers have used a gaggle of different fret sizes. Same as saying "I like medium jumbo frets" - just a bunch of words, all sizzle and no beef. The ONLY safe way to know is to measure the fret crown right on the guitar. Any digital caliper, even the cheap $10 one from Harbor Freight, can be easily modified to check fret crown height by notching the end of the caliper to slip over the fret (a 1/8" notch with a file does the trick). Then again, what really matters is what yer fretting fingers tell ya .....

[eryque]

Fender has basically used 2 different kinds of fretwire, original vintage small and medium-jumbo. While Rob is technically right, the variation in the size of these frets is not enormous. A guitar that came with vintage style frets is going to feel similar to all the other Telecasters with vintage style frets, and the same for medium jumbos. I don't think the calipers are necessary unless you decide that you want to make sure that every aspect of your new neck is identical, down to the thousandth of an inch.

If you tell us what model guitar you have, we can tell you what will be similar.

[Rob DiStefano]

I've measured frets on Fender guitars for decades, and there is a wide difference in fret sizes that were/are used.

Yes, a few thousandths of an inch means a lot, and yer fingers will notice that even if yer eyes don't.

You need to measure the crown width and height to know what you have and what you want. Either that or trust your fretting fingers. There is no other way, it's a tactile test.

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

I've measured frets on Fender guitars for decades, and there is a wide difference in fret sizes that were/are used.

+1 on that Rob !

[eryque]

Rob, I'm not disputing that there are differences, and I won't dispute that some players can feel a real difference, but in practical terms, how much difference are most players going to notice? I don't think it's going to be nearly as many as you think. After all, how many times have you heard someone say something like "I had my Tele refretted with Gibson frets and I like it better now." Most players simply aren't that precise about it. This is the sort of detail that technicians get bogged down in and most people hardly notice.

In any case, I don't think your advice is practical for our new friend alk-3. He wants to know what other guitars are going to feel similar to the one he has, and he is not going to buy a pair of calipers and go to a guitar store and start measuring frets. I'm sure he'll be plenty happy if we find him a guitar with a similar neck shape and similar frets.

[alk-3]

thanks guys, i have a standard MIM tele from 2001. I'm really not that picky, but i do know that the current "american series" with what fender calls "medium-jumbo" don't feel good to me. i have them on several other fenders i own and for that reason alone the MIM tele has remained my number one for all these years.
So any suggestions as to what year american series (or american standard) would feel most like my 2001 MIM?

[eryque]

Your guitar was made with medium-jumbo fret wire. Unfortunately, there's no way to narrow down minor variations in fret sizes by year, at least as far as modern production goes. I'm sure that Fender uses different suppliers for their fretwire depending on all sorts of factors, and I'd even be willing to bet that the Mexico factory sometimes uses different suppliers than the California factory. Each of those different suppliers is going to have slightly different specs.

Are you sure that you're feeling the difference in fret size and not some other factor? What is it that doesn't feel good about the guitars you've tried?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by eryque

Rob, I'm not disputing that there are differences, and I won't dispute that some players can feel a real difference, but in practical terms, how much difference are most players going to notice? I don't think it's going to be nearly as many as you think. After all, how many times have you heard someone say something like "I had my Tele refretted with Gibson frets and I like it better now." Most players simply aren't that precise about it. This is the sort of detail that technicians get bogged down in and most people hardly notice.

In any case, I don't think your advice is practical for our new friend alk-3. He wants to know what other guitars are going to feel similar to the one he has, and he is not going to buy a pair of calipers and go to a guitar store and start measuring frets. I'm sure he'll be plenty happy if we find him a guitar with a similar neck shape and similar frets.

The bottom line with all necks/fingerboards/frets is feel.

If you can't make a physical hand's on comparison 'tween neck/fingerboard/frets with respect to two necks (say, yer current and a prospective new one), using terminology such as "medium jumbo" makes no practical sense and stands a good chance of doing someone a disservice.

Lacking the above, you must measure the frets if frets are the issue at hand. Anything else is a gamble.

The word "practical" shouldn't be part of the quest, IF the intent is to get what you want (a clone of the feel of an old neck in a new one).

[boris bubbanov]

The two neck types you're describing are more the same in fret size, radius and so on than they are different, by a long shot.

May I suggest that the US guitar's thinner neck contour is what is turning you off? Unless your other US Fender Teles are American Vintage specifications or some exceptions like an Am Dlx Ash Tele, they all tend to be thinner necked, meticulous fretwork but other wise not that different from recent MIM teles. Some of the MIM Teles have vintage frets and/or even chunkier necks as well.

The other possibility is the MIM is played in, set up, better than you know, dead perfect for you. Maybe it is just 'the' guitar for you, absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Bubbanov

[alk-3]

sorry guys, it turns out the guitar was made in 1999 (you'd think i would know that, seeing as i baught it new).
there is a substantial visual differance between this mexi tele and my 50th anniversary american strat, as well as with my 72 reissue telecaster duluxe.
obviously they feel different too.
i'm fairly sure the frets on the mim tele are what fender calls "vintage style" frets, what that means exactly is obviously up for debate, but for my purposes im simply after an american series (or standard) tele with "vintage style" frets.

[eryque]

I'd be really surprised if yours had vintage-style frets. Those are the small ones, as found on the 50s classic and 52RI. Fender only uses those on models that are patterned after the really old ones.

Go try out a 50s classic and 52RI and see how they feel in comparison.

Or, you can do like Rob says and measure the frets you have and call up one of the numerous custom neck makers and have them build one to your specs.

[alk-3]

okay, i went to the guitar shop and tried out a 52RI. that guitar has exactly the same frets i have on my mexican tele. the neck is beefier and shiny (a bit sticky feeling) but the frets are exactly the same. the frets on my 50th anniversary strat are about twice the size of my MIM tele's, so i know the frets on the Mexican tele are not medium jumbo.

what size frets were used on american teles from the early 90's?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by alk-3

okay, i went to the guitar shop and tried out a 52RI. that guitar has exactly the same frets i have on my mexican tele. the neck is beefier and shiny (a bit sticky feeling) but the frets are exactly the same. the frets on my 50th anniversary strat are about twice the size of my MIM tele's, so i know the frets on the Mexican tele are not medium jumbo.

what size frets were used on american teles from the early 90's?

If you've read what's been typed before, there is no clear cut answer to your question and you are just about on a frustrating Don Quixote quest.

You have a MIM that you like, but you want to get another guitar just like it ... why? Is there something that wrong and/or unfixable with yer MIM?

There are lots of things about a guitar neck besides frets that contribute to its playablity and overall "feel", for you. So it might just not be fret size alone that'll make ya a happy camper. If you feel it's the fret size yer after, YOU MUST MEASURE THE FRETS and not rely on silly ambiguous labels like "medium" frets.

As just stated, understand it may not be the frets alone that's giving you that MIM neck feel you like so much. Go out and try as many American Teles (what you seem to be after) as possible and maybe find what yer after. Or maybe not. No one can give you the answer as to what you really like ...

[Vizcaster]

If you don't have a caliper it'll be hard to measure the fret width (even with one it's tough on frets that are installed and there's finish butted against them), but you can get the fret height using a ruler across two frets and a set of feeler gauges (sometimes spark plug gap tools work for this). Find the combination of feeler gauges that will fit under the ruler between two frets and you have the fret height. There will be some variation up and down the neck from fret dressing and even more if they're worn. The Highway One's with "Jumbo" frets are really massive railroad rails and you can spot those a mile away (they measure .058" high), but unless it's such a stark example, I have to agree that measuring is a good idea. Surprise, surprise, I found that the guitars that I tend to play a lot have frets about .039 to .041" in height, whereas the ones I leave in the case have frets that are taller or shorter, so you may discover you have a preference even without realizing it.