1969 Tele Nut Replacement

[Platefire]

My 69 tele nut has just recently broken all the way through on the b string slot. I have temporaraly installed
a small thin piece of flat metal in front of the nut to hold
the string the right height off the fingerboard. All the people I would trust to fix this is now dead and I don't know any set up person personally that I would trust with this job as of right now. I probably could fine tune
a nut myself to work if I got one close to the original as
possible. I have replaced nuts myself on other guitars
but am definatly not a pro set up guy. This is my main
ax and I need to get it up and running soon and sought
out this forum out for hopefully some good advice. I don't want to take a chance on shipping the guitar to someone but would consider shipping the nut maybe
for an exact rebuild. It would be nice if there were somewhere I could purchase a precut nut for this model
ready to go. I'm open to suggestions and covet your help.
Thanks, Platefire

Here is a shot of my tele.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tto...c=ph%26.view=l

[Rob DiStefano]

IMO ...

1. You NEED to get that nut replaced ASAP, for your playing sanity and your g'tar's well being.

2. NO, you can't get a nut properly cut remotely, while off the guitar. NO.

3. Search around for a local tech - make sure he/she has good nut cutting experience (ask fot references) so your g'tar doesn't become someone's training experiment ... if so, and a bad nut is cut, it won't hurt your g'tar, just your wallet and your time.

4. Find out how long the job will take - some techs and luthiers are stacked up with work and you may be in for a shock to find a wait of weeks for something as simple as a new custom nut.

5. Understand the new nut cutting cost up front.

6. A pre-cut nut may get you playing, but a well cut custom nut will beg to play with you. 8)

7. Learn to cut your own g'tar nuts. Lotsa good stuff on the web about this ... my nut cutting

8. You'll hear both pros and cons about shipping your guitar off for repairs. Make up your own mind about such matters.

YMMV.

[Bob Rogers]

I agree with everything Rob said. The most important thing is that unless the tech is a complete incompetent there is very little danger of actually damaging the guitar. You can waste time and money, but the guitar is almost certainly safe. Look at Rob’s website. You will see that if the tech protects the neck and headstock while he works the only thing that can get screwed up is the new nut.

[Platefire]

Thanks Rob and Bob :D

I looked and ran a hard copy of the nut cutting tutorial.
I can see what you mean about it has to be done in place
on the guitar. I live in North West Louisiana in a town
called Many about 70 miles South of Shreveport. So any
good set up people will be a ways away. I will just have
ask around and seek someone out. Looking at your
tutorial I belive I could probably do it but by the time I got the tools and got up to speed it might take a while.
I do have other guitars to use and the temporary fix
I did with the piece of metal has really made the string
respond strangly especially when you bend it, and I pull
on the b string a lot. Maybe you have a better Idea on a temporary fix??? until I find a good set up man. I appreciate your good advice and everything you said
makes perfect sense. I will start with Shreveport Music
and see who they have and go from there.

Rob I also looked at yout link to the strats and teles
and especially fell in love with "Amazing Grace" but
all of them are pretty amazing and custom made. My
guitars are mostly stock. I get into customizing tube
amps more than working on guitars and have built
a couple of modified 5F1 Champs. Here is shot of the last
one I built for my Son. Thanks, Again
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tto...src=ph%26.view

[Rob DiStefano]

Bob,

I think you'll find learning to cut a nut is both easy and quite rewarding at many levels. It'll allow you to tweak your g'tars for best playability and you'll not hafta be concerned about that chore ever again.

Aside from the nut cutting process, and getting some nut blanks, you'll need at least three nut files - and the ONLY nut files to get are the flat gauged ones. Typically these will run $12-$14 each, but they'll last about a lifetime's worth of nut cutting use, a great investment.

Nut blanks - you can make your own from 1/4" x 2" x 2" Corian kitchen counter samples that you can get for free from home improvement type stores. I use bandsaw to cut off 1/8" blanks, but a table saw or jigsaw would work about as well. Corian makes for a *superb* nut - even some high-end acoustic guitar makers use that material almost exclusively.

Real nice amp and cab work!! I "dabble" in cab building a bit, too - http://rfd.cc/rfc/

[Platefire]

Hello Rob

Yow I'd say you dabble in cab building a bit mitered
joints and all. Mighty fine looking work!!! I've never
tried the natural wood finish. Did you make all the guitars
listed under strats and teles? I've made one guitar(flying
V) out of parts from one of my grandpas old *** guitars
that the hollow body self destructed. The new body was made from hardwood flooring material and pickgard from trailer wall liner material from the trailer company I use to work for in the 70's. I worked OK but I never tried anything after that.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tto...ia.jpg&.view=t
Thanks for the tip on the "Corian". I guess maybe my
local Lowes would have that?! Have you got some links
or info on where to obtain the files you were refering to.
I don't know that I will take this on but seriously considering it. Probably for less than the price to get
a repair man to do this, I could get set up myself. My problem is I have so many projects on going that I hate
to take up something else additional also. But with your
tutorial, my old nut to go by and some tools--- I think I can---I think I can!!!

Thanks, Bob

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Platefire

Hello Rob

Yow I'd say you dabble in cab building a bit mitered
joints and all. Mighty fine looking work!!!

Thanx - oh the power of a Porter Cable dovetail jig and some nice pine planks!

I've never
tried the natural wood finish.

Without a hefty tolex overcoat, a cab or combo will wanna dance a jig from all its new-found vibrations.

Did you make all the guitars
listed under strats and teles?

I don't make (build) guitars anymore - those are all my partscaster assemblies.

I've made one guitar(flying
V) out of parts from one of my grandpas old MIJ guitars
that the hollow body self destructed. The new body was made from hardwood flooring material and pickgard from trailer wall liner material from the trailer company I use to work for in the 70's. I worked OK but I never tried anything after that.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/tto...ia.jpg&.view=t

Looks purty good to me!

Thanks for the tip on the "Corian". I guess maybe my
local Lowes would have that?!

If they offer kitchen counter tops they should have'em.

Have you got some links
or info on where to obtain the files you were refering to.

I usually get my luthier supplies from Stew-Mac - again, ONLY get the FLAT nut files, not any of the wedge shaped ones!


I don't know that I will take this on but seriously considering it. Probably for less than the price to get
a repair man to do this, I could get set up myself.

Yup - if yer a g'tarist, nut cutting is something you'll always be very glad you can do.

My problem is I have so many projects on going that I hate
to take up something else additional also. But with your
tutorial, my old nut to go by and some tools--- I think I can---I think I can!!!

Yes, I promise you it's not at all difficult - it's actually quite easy. And once you have some nut files, the only expense will be your time. Email me anytime for assistance.

Cheers,
Rob.



Thanks, Bob

[josephandmary]

If you don't have a spare $120 then get a junior hacksaw blade. The teeth stick out sideways and cut too wide for thinner strings so just grind the sides flat and you'll have a handy tool. If you are good at grinding you can graduate the thickness of your blade and have one tool to cut all six slots.

There isn't much that can go wrong. If you cut too deep, get another lump of something to work on.

What's the worst that can happen if you ship your guitar out? Oh no, I don't like to think that way.........

For me, brass is the best thing for a nut but it's so easy you can try anything until you find what suits you best.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by josephandmary

If you don't have a spare $120 then get a junior hacksaw blade. The teeth stick out sideways and cut too wide for thinner strings so just grind the sides flat and you'll have a handy tool. If you are good at grinding you can graduate the thickness of your blade and have one tool to cut all six slots.

There isn't much that can go wrong. If you cut too deep, get another lump of something to work on.

What's the worst that can happen if you ship your guitar out? Oh no, I don't like to think that way.........

For me, brass is the best thing for a nut but it's so easy you can try anything until you find what suits you best.

You don't need to spend $120 to get started in nut cutting. Three good flat gauged files might set you back $50, including shipping.

You will do a FAR better nut cutting job with real round edged, flat gauged nut files - non-round edged cutting devices will render flat bottomed nut slots that will cause intonation, tuning and other tonal issues at some point.

Realize that, if you are at least a somewhat serious guitarist, nut cutting chops is something you will come to rely upon - and use and be thankful for - throughout your g'tar playing lifetime.

[Soapbarstrat]

Rob,

You're not the first one to say that Stew-mac's hefty, "improved" nut files are actually inferior to the older Grobet style ones.
Did you try one of the newer ones ?

Just wondering , cuz I'll stick to the old ones too, if I keep hearing things like this.

[Rob DiStefano]

I see no reason to even try those "new and improved" nut files that Stew-Mac, and others, sell.


The indutiral diamond coated coated, "one size fits all", nutfile (#4410) is just that - a diamond shaped double wedge file with rounded knife edges. What's wrong about this file is two things: 1) it'll produce only one size slot bottom and so all the strings will not sit on the bottom of the slot, but rest on the angled side edges, and 2) it's wedge shaped - nut slots should have straight shouldered walls, not angled ones. IMO, this is a totally dumb nut file best used for anything but cutting instrument nut slots.



The sized double taper nut file (#45xx), is a bit better in that each file has two specifically gauged rounded edges of different widths, so you'll get a nicely rounded nut slot bottom that'll fit specific sized strings - however, since each file is also diamond shaped, the side walls of the nut slot will be angled and not straight. Close, but no cigar, therefore not worth buying or using.


The flat gauged nut file is the perfect nut cutting file - flat sided so that the side walls of the nut slot are flat and vertical, and each file edge is perfectly rounded and correctly gauged. These are what professional luthiers and techs use because they are correct for getting the job done right.

[Bob Rogers]

I agree with Rob that the flat files are the right ones for the job. If I had it to do all over again I'd buy those. But I have a collection of the double edged ones and I've never had a problem. With the flat files you get (ideally) 180 degrees of arc of the slot in contact with the string. With a wedge file you get 180 minus the angle of the wedge. The wedge is pretty sharp. I'd say you get over 170 degrees of contact.

As I say - I'd go with the flat if I had to do it again. But the Stew Mac double sided files are nicer tools to handle and you do save a few bucks since they are double sided. They are a reasonable alternative, and I'm not selling mine.

[Platefire]

Hey Guys

Great discussion!!! This is really helping determining the right tools to use for this job. Meanwhile I think I've
located a good set up guy that I can really trust my
Tele to so I'm trying to determine rather to proceed
with buying the tools or just taking it to him. I know it
would be a definate advantage to have this ability for
using on my other guitars but I got some gigs coming
soon that I really need my Tele for. One problem I having trouble reconsiling is cutting blank nuts with a band saw or table saw out of the Corian because all I have is a skill saw. Buying the three tools recomended
by Rob is not a problem. I just don't want this to drag on
to long and custom cutting a blank to fit my existing nut
groove seems like a major hurtle in my mind. Maybe I've made a mountain out of a moldhill!!?? I just don't like the idea of chasing someone down with a band or tablesaw with material in hand and trying to make them understand how I want it cut that small and accurate when I know the stuff they normally cut is on a lot larger scale plus I wouldn't feel comfortable operating their equipment not being experianced with that tool. Could
lose a finger and I don't need that! Har! So any recomendations or suggestions on a better way to obtain my blank nut???

Also I'm wondering about how changing nut material will
effect the sound?? I guess the original nut was made out
of a plastic/vinyl material??? How does the difference
in materials say "Corian" effect the sound??

Appreciate all your help!!!! Bob

[Rob DiStefano]

Bob, don't sweat the nut blank cutting, a nut material like micarta is good and cheap enuf to work with while getting down yer nut cuttin chops, get 3 or 4 - then you can move on to Corian or unbleached cow bone. These are all hard, dense materials - unlike cheap plastic/PVC. All Parts, WD Music, Stew-Mac and other online vendors sell nut blanks.

[Pedalworld]

Hey Rob, Could he unbolt the neck and send it to you?

I've been forced to learn what I know about building because of a lack of local services...
(ONE repair guy in town- 60 dollar nut, 2 weeks--maple neck frets- 8 weeks! 225.$)

Any chance of just repairing the old nut w/Super glue + bone dust?

My worry would be taking the old nut out of the slot correctly...specially since it's a '69.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Pedalworld

Hey Rob, Could he unbolt the neck and send it to you?

No - the guitar must be strung for nut cutting.

[Platefire]

Hello Rob

I was just re-reading one of your earlier post about
cutting Corian or I guess any nut material and
you included a jig saw. I do have a hand jig saw!!!
but seems like that would be kind of unstable to cut
a perfect 1/8" wide nut. You must of ment a table mounted jig saw!!! Bob

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Platefire

Hello Rob

I was just re-reading one of your earlier post about
cutting Corian or I guess any nut material and
you included a jig saw. I do have a hand jig saw!!!
but seems like that would be kind of unstable to cut
a perfect 1/8" wide nut. You must of ment a table mounted jig saw!!! Bob

I choose between one of three methods for cutting out Corian nut blanks, not in prioritized order ...

* 8" table saw (40 tooth carbide blade)

* swing arm bandsaw (14tpi)

* Bosch barrel jig saw (20tpi) and a home made nut cutting jig ...

[Pedalworld]

Originally Posted by Rob DiStefano

No - the guitar must be strung for nut cutting.

I just saw this...LOL...I know that it must be string first, just thinking maybe you have the same spaced bridge tele body laying around.

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Pedalworld

I just saw this...LOL...I know that it must be string first, just thinking maybe you have the same spaced bridge tele body laying around.

Oh ... that's a good thought - could be done, I s'pose, but no final setup and no neck pocket, neck angle or bridge quirks to take into consideration. Hmmm. Dunno for sure ... probably would work out okay, maybe.

[Platefire]

Well I hope Rob you don't get mad at me but after
carful condideration I've decided to take my Tele
to a guy named Mark Deveale in Shreveport, La. that
comes highly recomended by people I know and trust. I came close to ordering the files you recomended but in my 40 years of guitar playing and probably 50 or more axes I've only had nut problems but with a couple. My proplem is I already have too many hobbies and find it hard to get around to all my projects and this would be another on top of all those. When I saw your jig and saw you used to cut your nuts I realized thats a little deeper than I want to go with this in addition to the files I would
need. Anyway I will call Mark tonight to make an appointment and will be going to Shreveport tomorrow
to take it to him. Thanks for all your help recomendations
and knowledge that you shared with me, I guess that was all part of the process to help me get to
this point. Thanks, Bob

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally Posted by Platefire

Well I hope Rob you don't get mad at me but after
carful condideration I've decided to take my Tele
to a guy named Mark Deveale in Shreveport, La. that
comes highly recomended by people I know and trust. I came close to ordering the files you recomended but in my 40 years of guitar playing and probably 50 or more axes I've only had nut problems but with a couple. My proplem is I already have too many hobbies and find it hard to get around to all my projects and this would be another on top of all those. When I saw your jig and saw you used to cut your nuts I realized thats a little deeper than I want to go with this in addition to the files I would
need. Anyway I will call Mark tonight to make an appointment and will be going to Shreveport tomorrow
to take it to him. Thanks for all your help recomendations
and knowledge that you shared with me, I guess that was all part of the process to help me get to
this point. Thanks, Bob

Heck, no problem - the only thing that matters is having yer g'tar playing the best it can play! Good fer you!