Gotoh Kluson installation problem

[TELEkinetic]

After installing press-in bushings,



marking,



drilling for tuner screws,



on the LAST screw:



No abnormal torsion - the screw simply just sheered off.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

After my initial anger subsided, I considered repairing this myself - but then thought better. I sent this set of pics to Warmoth via email. (I bought the tuners from them at the same time I bought the neck) Knowing their reputation I fully expect them to make this right.

[Bones]

Oh man, that's a killer.

[jwells393]

I did that when installing Gotoh Klusons in my Telecaster 12 string. I now use a little bigger screw when I install Klusons and make sure that I've drilled a large enough hole. The problem is that maple is so hard.

Dan Erlewine makes a small plug cutter from a piece of 3/16 brass tubing. He cuts out a plug containing the broken screw ........... plugs the hole and redrills. I'll e-mail you the article.

[johnspierce]

Maple is very hard, those screws are tiny and easy to break. Sorry to hear about your problem.

I always rub the screw threads on a bar of soap before putting them in. Also, screw in about 1/2 rotation, then back out, then back in again. Make sure the metal in the screw is not getting too hot.

JP

[Bones]

Originally Posted by johnspierce

Maple is very hard, those screws are tiny and easy to break. Sorry to hear about your problem.

I always rub the screw threads on a bar of soap before putting them in. Also, screw in about 1/2 rotation, then back out, then back in again. Make sure the metal in the screw is not getting too hot.

JP

Good pointers. Guitar Parts Resource actually included extra screw sets with the tuners I got from them, they were a little more substantial, so I figured out what they were trying to say.

[GUITARmole]

The Gotoh screws are terrible! After breaking off 3 in a row (being progressively more careful each time and drilling a larger pilot hole) I threw them in the garbage and used a different screw.

The problem is that according to the installation instructions you need a LARGER pilot hole for just the top of the shaft that's solid. The screws also tend to break easily (as can be seen by your picture) where the threads meet the solid section of the screw...and they're not made of particularly high quality metal either.

The best thing that can be done is to ditch them and buy stainless screws that are threaded over the entire length of the shaft.

As for the problem of the broken screw you might be able to drill a new pilot hole next to it, use a higher quality replacement screw, and leave the broken part there. -Much easier than drilling out the broken screw and dowelling the headstock, and it worked for me on one guitar.

[Ka-Ka]

I've had good luck with breaks like this. Usually there's a touch of material left above the plain that allows a Craftsman needle nose to grab onto. On a couple occasions i've needed to dig out around the screw with an exacto knife just enough to get the needle nose on.

I've always avoided stainless steel in applications like this. They are much weaker than standard carbon steel varients. They are also available chrome-plated. This way you get the strength and the looks.

[TELEkinetic]

From Ken Warmoth via email this morning:

Hard maple is indeed pretty hard….the proper hole size for the Kluson screws would be .078 (5/64”). Using a smaller hole will overstress some of the screws and cause them to shear as yours has done.



We do have tools to remove such a broken screw, after which the hole can be plugged and redrilled. If you would like to send the neck post paid to us we will remove the broken screw, plug the hole and return the neck to you promptly.

I guess a couldn't have asked for any more than this :D

I suspect he may browse this board and understand that we all discuss how companies catering to us "treat" us!

I'm spending 10 bucks and by the time my body is complete this should be back. I'm also going to Stew-Mac and get some higher quality screws.......

[The String King]

Oh god! I am about to install some Kluson tuners onto my guitar! I will be careful, I don't want this problem!

By the way, I was thinking of putting masking tape over the back of the head, where I need to drill the holes, make pencil marks through the back of the screw holes in the tuners, and going from there. Basically what you did... Did it work all right?
Thanks.

[TELEkinetic]

Originally Posted by The String King

Oh god! I am about to install some Kluson tuners onto my guitar! I will be careful, I don't want this problem!

By the way, I was thinking of putting masking tape over the back of the head, where I need to drill the holes, make pencil marks through the back of the screw holes in the tuners, and going from there. Basically what you did... Did it work all right?
Thanks.

Yes.

If you are putting in vintage style tuners:

1. Press the bushings in so the tuners will center in the holes

2. Cover the holes with painting tape (easy removal) and press through each hole with a ball point pen or other implement large enough to fill the hole

3. Place all tuners in the holes and line up with a straight edge.

4. Mark the first and last holes.

5. Use your straight edge and connect those marks making sure you bisect all holes evenly.

6. Place tuners back into holes and mark the position where tuner screw openings meet the bisecting line.

7. With a scratch awl or other pointed implement, mark each location.

8. Drill correct size holes through the tape

[The String King]

Okay, thanks.

What the difference between the Kluson Deluxe tuners that I have and the Gotoh Kluson styles you have?

Well, I suppose it is each to their own.

[Ka-Ka]

5. Use your straight edge and connect those marks making sure you bisect all holes evenly.

This is SO important. The first time I installed a set I pretty much murdered the alignment. It's not very hard to screw up. Make sure a centerline is drawn before final drilling or there's a great chance of misallignment.

I now walk away from the project then reinspect allignment after a few minutes. This resets your brain, I guess, and what wasn't obvious earlier now appears so.

[TELEkinetic]

Originally Posted by The String King

What's the difference between the Kluson Deluxe tuners that I have and the Gotoh Kluson styles you have?

I'm not sure but here are the specifications for mine.

http://www.warmoth.com/hardware/tune...toh_kluson.pdf

[jwells393]

I would stick in all the tuners............. press a straight edge (something like a strip of masonite) against the lower side of the tuners and clamp it in place. The tuners will be alighned and can no longer turn. Drill through the mounting holes. Install screws ........ remove clamp ............. Perfectly aligned tuners.

[Brick]

I use a small metal carpenter's square and plexi cauls to protect the front face. I also have a set of bits with masking tape wrapped around them the legnth of the screw so I don't drill to deep. At the first sign of ANY tention, I back the screw out and enlarge the hole slightly.
I have only broken a screw once, and once is enough. Think about it, there is no tension to pull these screws out so they don't have to be too tight, just snug. The bushings take all the string tension.

I have bits marked for the tuner screws, strap button screws, neck plate screws, etc, so there is no guesswork.

I think it is great customer service for Warmouth to fix what was "operator error". IMHO they have no obligation to. They are just doing you a great service.

[TELEkinetic]

Originally Posted by Brick

I think it is great customer service for Warmouth to fix what was "operator error". IMHO they have no obligation to. They are just doing you a great service.

Brick,

I agree with everything above except your interpretation of "operator error". :?

When you took the care I did and follow the directions to a T, there isn't a damn thing you can go with a substandard product. The company I work for deals in life support where "operator error" causes death. We warrant every single thing we sell even though we do not manufacture everything we make. I would expect nothing less from a leader in any business.

In fact, when I got Warmoth in the phone Monday, their first "live" reaction was "we don't warrant those screws", etc. It was the email that went to Ken Warmoth detailing the failure of a product his company sold that caused a seconday problem that made this customer service response happen. They may have no "legal" obligation to do anything; however, they certainly have an ethical obligation it they want to retain my business! I'll bet if you had just dropped 500 bucks of your hard earned cash you would feel just the same as I.


Never, underestimate the power of a well placed email and photo documentation

[jwells393]

I also broke a Gotoh Kluson screw in a Warmoth neck but I feel it was indeed operator error or my lack of experience dealing with maple. I didn't blame Warmoth. I feel your screw broke because the hole you drilled was either too small in diameter or not deep enough. Maple is very hard and these are very small screws. I think Warmoth is going above and beyond the call of duty in repairing your mistake.

[The String King]

Does it matter how high the peg protudes over the head? Because my stock tuners were higher then the Klusons are. So does it matter how high it is or not? I don't think so, but I will ask you 'pros' just to be sure.

[TELEkinetic]

will all agree on here is that.....

Warmoth is a class act and is committed to good customer service. :D

The TDPRI is THE greatest place to learn about and share all things Telecaster! 8)

My thanks to all those helping me in my short time hangin' here.

[blue moon]

I did the same thing on a beautiful birdseye maple warmoth neck about 16 years ago. Had to drill it out and plug the hole and do it over. After that I always put a little wax on the threads of the screws and never had that problem again. I do this with all screws going into a new body or neck.

[TELEkinetic]

today.....And a wonderful job they did.



Thanks Warmoth...... :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Brick]

Warmouth went beyond the call of duty IMHO, and you are so correct in the power of a well written, respectful letter or e mail to the guy with his name on the building. He incurred an expense, but just see how much goodwill it generated, as you are now brodcasting their good customer service to many prospective customers.

I have several necks and bodies from Warmouth and they cut the best pickguards I've bought, and they will do the wacky stuff like if you want a strat guard cut HB strat P90 with only two control holes.

[The String King]

All the awesome places don't ship to England!

Except:
Thomann
Rockinger
axesrus
and WD music (but they aren't very good.)

[appar111]

Originally Posted by TELEkinetic

From Ken Warmoth via email this morning:

Hard maple is indeed pretty hard….the proper hole size for the Kluson screws would be .078 (5/64”). Using a smaller hole will overstress some of the screws and cause them to shear as yours has done.



We do have tools to remove such a broken screw, after which the hole can be plugged and redrilled. If you would like to send the neck post paid to us we will remove the broken screw, plug the hole and return the neck to you promptly.

I guess a couldn't have asked for any more than this :D

I suspect he may browse this board and understand that we all discuss how companies catering to us "treat" us!

I'm spending 10 bucks and by the time my body is complete this should be back. I'm also going to Stew-Mac and get some higher quality screws.......

MAN, I wish I would have asked Warmoth to make things right when the same thing happened to me with one of their necks-- I stupidly only asked for some new screws, I should have just asked 'what can you guys do to help?".. Glad to hear they're taking care of their customers!

Josh

[Ratae Coritanorum]

Originally Posted by The String King

All the awesome places don't ship to England!

Except:
Thomann
Rockinger
axesrus
and WD music (but they aren't very good.)

Warmoth DO ship to the UK.
Oh and hello

This ebony boarded beauty is testament to that:

[chickenpicker]

Welcome, Ratae Coritanorum! Nice guitar.

Digressing slightly, you're in the Roman city of Bath, but your user name is what the Romans called Leicester...

Care to explain?

[new player 714]

I just installed a set of Gotoh myself. I bought them from Ste-Mac, and was short one screw. Went to local hardware store, and found 4x1/2 nickel plated screws that worked out fine matches the tuners better than stainless steel screws.

[Stylemaster]

Originally Posted by Ka-Ka

I've always avoided stainless steel in applications like this. They are much weaker than standard carbon steel varients. They are also available chrome-plated. This way you get the strength and the looks.

Stainless steel screws weaker? Someone please explain this.

[boris bubbanov]

Some stainless is very soft.

I hadn't found any lately that have given me trouble, but I am working very hard to avoid the red Chinese stuff (Taiwan seems fine)

But you don't want brittle, either.

And yes, I do like to double drill to make the shaft part larger in diameter.