4 way switch mod with no cover on neck pickup?

superhand · November 1st, 2009, 09:30 PM

I bought a set of Keystones, the ones with no cover on the neck pup. After I already put in my order, I started looking into the whole series/parallel 4way thing.

Now it looks like to me based on the wiring diagrams that I have seen, that you need to ground the cover separately from the regular ground on the pickup for it to work right?

Is there any other way to do it?

cc9cii · November 1st, 2009, 09:54 PM

If your pickup does not have a cover just ignore the wires that refer to shield (which goes to the back of a pot). i.e. your pickup will not have a shield wire and there will be no need to separate anything

superhand · November 1st, 2009, 11:38 PM

Am I going to have any issues with extra noise or anything without the cover?

cc9cii · November 2nd, 2009, 12:02 AM

Sorry, don't have one of those pickups so I wouldn't know.

superhand · November 2nd, 2009, 10:28 AM

Anybody know how I would do it? Would I just ignore the wire that grounds the pickup cover and do everything else the same?

Has anyone tried this?

sjtalon · November 2nd, 2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superhand

Anybody know how I would do it? Would I just ignore the wire that grounds the pickup cover and do everything else the same?

yes, just like cc said.

It would be just like this diagram. Note "rhythm pickup". Lead (bridge ) pickup is correct as well, and the blue goes to ground with the rest.

Diagram also matches the wire colors of Keystone as well as far as white (+) and black (-). Ignore the "COVER" wire.

http://www.blueguitar.org/new/schem/_gtr/tele4way.jpg

Good decision on the 4 way...............you'll love it !

superhand · November 2nd, 2009, 09:05 PM

What is the point of grounding the cover separately then if you don't even need it at all to make it work for the 4 way switch?

Sorry, I'm still learning about guitar electronics, and its still kind of confusing to me.

sjtalon · November 2nd, 2009, 09:10 PM

The cover is a "noise" (interference) shield for the pickup. The Telecaster neck pickup is unique in that it has one (a rare thing). For the shield to work it needs to be connected to ground ( to bleed off the electrical interference to ground that would otherwise be picked up by the pickup itself). That is ALL THE SHIELD DOES. It has NOTHING to do with the series parallel - switching operation.

When you wire up the four way switch, you are taking what was the pickups ground (negative) wire and putting it on the switch. The negative wire from the coil is also (normaly) connected to this ground wire ( to get a free ride to ground). So now you would need to run a separate wire so that the cover gets grounded.................if you where to have a cover.

Does that cover it

sjtalon · November 2nd, 2009, 09:21 PM

Just to give you an idea of what this cover biz looks like scroll to the bottom of this page:

http://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_4wayinfo.html

http://www.ocduffpickups.com/pickups/teleneck.jpg

superhand · November 2nd, 2009, 09:26 PM

Ok. I think I get it now. It's kind of like grounding the copper shielding in you control cavity, or the back of you pickguard or where ever else you put it.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a website that can explain the basics of guitar electronics?

sjtalon · November 2nd, 2009, 09:29 PM

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Elec...es/i-4000.html

Don't spend too much time at that site. Your suppose to be PLAYING !

superhand · November 2nd, 2009, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjtalon

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Elec...es/i-4000.html

Don't spend too much time at that site. Your suppose to be PLAYING !

True.

I just want to be prepared when I get my Keystones, so I can get everything hooked up right.

Thanks for the link that is exactly what I had in mind

sjtalon · November 2nd, 2009, 09:55 PM

You betcha.

Good thing your getting your ducks in a row. The Keystones come with a paper that tells you what color wire to hook where but no diagrams. I am not knocking them as there are a heap of options and with the internet ( and great sites like this) you can get anything you want diagram wise anyway.

I have a set of KS's in my Nashville Telecaster..............OH BABY !!!!

Keep us posted.

sjtalon · November 2nd, 2009, 09:59 PM

dp

superhand · November 2nd, 2009, 11:00 PM

I sure will. I just put in an order for a 4 way switch wiring kit and some chrome knobs. Once I get everything installed I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Maybe I'll even do some sound clips. A little before and after kind of thing with the stock SX pups and the Keystones.

pdxjoel · November 3rd, 2009, 01:08 AM

What are you using for the middle pup? I have a set of Keystones on order, wondering if I should replace the Tex-Mex strat pup while I have it apart.

superhand · November 3rd, 2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxjoel

What are you using for the middle pup? I have a set of Keystones on order, wondering if I should replace the Tex-Mex strat pup while I have it apart.

I'm talking about a tele style guitar. 2 pickups. The 4 way switch gives you one more option, which is having the pickups in series rather than parallel which gives you a humbucker type of effect.

Should have clarified I guess, I just assumed we were all talking about teles.

sjtalon · November 3rd, 2009, 08:12 AM

Joel, I would wait and see how it sounds. The TEX MEX is a very good pickup and kind off hot so should go well with the KS. I have a Custom Shop Texas Special in my Nashville and it goes real nice with the KS'S. Nice bell/chimey tone and da quack ! You could say the KS neck is a tad "Straty" so it combines well with the middle pup anyway.

The Tex Mex and Texas Special sound very simular so you may like it too.

boris bubbanov · November 3rd, 2009, 12:27 PM

Superhand, here is a guitar with a 4 way (series parallel) with uncovered Keystones.

As sjtalon has said, no neck pup ground lead is required. Bill has designed this pickup so well it is extremely quiet for a single coil. IMO the chrome deposition cover on the Deluxe version is for aesthetics and to better protect the pickup from beer, sweat, etc.

boris bubbanov · November 3rd, 2009, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdxjoel

What are you using for the middle pup? I have a set of Keystones on order, wondering if I should replace the Tex-Mex strat pup while I have it apart.

You have a 'Nashville' style Tele? If you're using a set of Tele Keystones, I would rip the Tex Mex Strat pup out of there and put it in another guitar, or set it up as a separate blend only pickup ala Mr. Brent Mason. The Tex Mex is gonna be non RWRP towards either the neck Keystone or the bridge Keystone and it will increase you guitar's noise level just being there. I use a middle Tex Mex Strat pup in several of my guitars but frankly IMO it is in the way on a Keystoned guitar.

sjtalon · November 3rd, 2009, 06:10 PM

Tex Mex Strat Middle: South

KS Bridge, South
KS Neck, North

pdxjoel · November 4th, 2009, 12:19 AM

superhand - I'm talking Tele, but Nashville. I managed to mangle your post with another and confuse both in the process.

Boris, forgot the bit about the keystones being RWRP to each other. Good news is I have a superswitch waiting for the install so I can get the N/B setup in the middle throw which should be nice and quiet. Bad news is that I now have 4/5 throws non-noise cancelling. = (

I suppose if I got a stacked HB, coil-split and wired carefully I could get the desired result...

Thanks, all, for setting me straight.

November 1st, 2009, 09:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
superhand Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 248	4 way switch with Keystones? I bought a set of Keystones, the ones with no cover on the neck pup. After I already put in my order, I started looking into the whole series/parallel 4way thing. Now it looks like to me based on the wiring diagrams that I have seen, that you need to ground the cover separately from the regular ground on the pickup for it to work right? Is there any other way to do it? Last edited by superhand; November 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 AM.

November 2nd, 2009, 09:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	dp Last edited by sjtalon; November 2nd, 2009 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Woops too many windows open

November 3rd, 2009, 12:27 PM	#19 (permalink)
boris bubbanov Doctor of Teleocity Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: New Orleans, LA + in the past Posts: 15,227	Superhand, here is a guitar with a 4 way (series parallel) with uncovered Keystones. As sjtalon has said, no neck pup ground lead is required. Bill has designed this pickup so well it is extremely quiet for a single coil. IMO the chrome deposition cover on the Deluxe version is for aesthetics and to better protect the pickup from beer, sweat, etc. __________________ When i listen

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November 1st, 2009, 09:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
cc9cii Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 773	If your pickup does not have a cover just ignore the wires that refer to shield (which goes to the back of a pot). i.e. your pickup will not have a shield wire and there will be no need to separate anything

November 1st, 2009, 11:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
superhand Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 248	Am I going to have any issues with extra noise or anything without the cover?

November 2nd, 2009, 12:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
cc9cii Tele-Holic Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Sydney Posts: 773	Sorry, don't have one of those pickups so I wouldn't know.

November 2nd, 2009, 10:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
superhand Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 248	Anybody know how I would do it? Would I just ignore the wire that grounds the pickup cover and do everything else the same? Has anyone tried this?

November 2nd, 2009, 09:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
superhand Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 248	What is the point of grounding the cover separately then if you don't even need it at all to make it work for the 4 way switch? Sorry, I'm still learning about guitar electronics, and its still kind of confusing to me.

November 2nd, 2009, 09:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	The cover is a "noise" (interference) shield for the pickup. The Telecaster neck pickup is unique in that it has one (a rare thing). For the shield to work it needs to be connected to ground ( to bleed off the electrical interference to ground that would otherwise be picked up by the pickup itself). That is ALL THE SHIELD DOES. It has NOTHING to do with the series parallel - switching operation. When you wire up the four way switch, you are taking what was the pickups ground (negative) wire and putting it on the switch. The negative wire from the coil is also (normaly) connected to this ground wire ( to get a free ride to ground). So now you would need to run a separate wire so that the cover gets grounded.................if you where to have a cover. Does that cover it

November 2nd, 2009, 09:21 PM	#9 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	Just to give you an idea of what this cover biz looks like scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_4wayinfo.html http://www.ocduffpickups.com/pickups/teleneck.jpg

November 2nd, 2009, 09:26 PM	#10 (permalink)
superhand Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 248	Ok. I think I get it now. It's kind of like grounding the copper shielding in you control cavity, or the back of you pickguard or where ever else you put it. Can anyone point me in the direction of a website that can explain the basics of guitar electronics?

November 2nd, 2009, 09:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Elec...es/i-4000.html Don't spend too much time at that site. Your suppose to be PLAYING !

November 2nd, 2009, 09:55 PM	#13 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	You betcha. Good thing your getting your ducks in a row. The Keystones come with a paper that tells you what color wire to hook where but no diagrams. I am not knocking them as there are a heap of options and with the internet ( and great sites like this) you can get anything you want diagram wise anyway. I have a set of KS's in my Nashville Telecaster..............OH BABY !!!! Keep us posted.

November 2nd, 2009, 11:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
superhand Tele-Meister Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Clovis, CA Posts: 248	I sure will. I just put in an order for a 4 way switch wiring kit and some chrome knobs. Once I get everything installed I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Maybe I'll even do some sound clips. A little before and after kind of thing with the stock SX pups and the Keystones.

November 3rd, 2009, 01:08 AM	#16 (permalink)
pdxjoel TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 18	What are you using for the middle pup? I have a set of Keystones on order, wondering if I should replace the Tex-Mex strat pup while I have it apart.

November 3rd, 2009, 08:12 AM	#18 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	Joel, I would wait and see how it sounds. The TEX MEX is a very good pickup and kind off hot so should go well with the KS. I have a Custom Shop Texas Special in my Nashville and it goes real nice with the KS'S. Nice bell/chimey tone and da quack ! You could say the KS neck is a tad "Straty" so it combines well with the middle pup anyway. The Tex Mex and Texas Special sound very simular so you may like it too.

November 3rd, 2009, 06:10 PM	#21 (permalink)
sjtalon Tele-Holic Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Upper Peninsula of Michigan Age: 50 Posts: 901 7 Photos	Tex Mex Strat Middle: South KS Bridge, South KS Neck, North

November 4th, 2009, 12:19 AM	#22 (permalink)
pdxjoel TDPRI Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 18	superhand - I'm talking Tele, but Nashville. I managed to mangle your post with another and confuse both in the process. Boris, forgot the bit about the keystones being RWRP to each other. Good news is I have a superswitch waiting for the install so I can get the N/B setup in the middle throw which should be nice and quiet. Bad news is that I now have 4/5 throws non-noise cancelling. = ( I suppose if I got a stacked HB, coil-split and wired carefully I could get the desired result... Thanks, all, for setting me straight.

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