New Tele, but with bridge problems!

[davebelcher98]

Originally Posted by Oldschoolwax

The angle of the sting cut in the nut might not be sharp enough, making the e string leave solid contact with the nut before the edge. It could be.... sorry one of the saddle height screws was frozen,, ( did I mention the blood and sweat! =) ) anyway, perhaps a little dot of Kroil or something on the screw head every once in a while might loosen it up, if not I'm sure it could be "unscrewed" from the bottom, with some vice grips and replaced, or just given a turn or two to get it where you need it.if the nut is loos when you slack the strings, you could try shimming it up and seeing if this changes the way ths string rings, that might let you know if it's the nut itself you're dealing with. Anyway, glad you've at least got a playing tele again. Enjoy, and make it your own! I think that's what it wants! =)

Hey Michael,

No problem on the saddle screw...I actually did get it to move a bit -- one allen key size bigger and it was almost the right fit...enough to turn it! I wouldn't at all be surprised if the problem is indeed related to the nut, though. It's cut a little short width-wise to begin with...well, that's not exactly right...it's kind of hard to explain. It is right at the top, but it bevels out underneath it to a narrower width...again, hard to explain (I'll post a pic tomorrow along with others). I think I'll still play with this thing at my gig on Sunday (it sounded pretty decent in rehearsal -- still not my desired sound, of course, but pretty good nonetheless), and then I can get to work on it for a while. I don't think I have anything else til middle of July, so maybe I can get this all worked out before then! Thanks again.

dave b

[davebelcher98]

Dang sorry for no pics yet...long story there.

So, Michael, you were right on. The problem with the high 3 strings was indeed that there virtually was no angle in the nut slots. A very fast fix with nut files. The guitar now rings as it should!

I think the only other thing to be done with the guitar for now is probably a good fret re-dressing, which I don't have the money for. The buzz is all over the guitar with good relief and pretty good action (meaning, even with action raised up and a bit of relief I'm getting the exact same buzz all over the fretboard in different spots, some of which are "fret-outs").

Thanks for all the advice again.

dave b

[Oldschoolwax]

....well, we still demand pics, but glad hear she rings, I play hard and keep my necks dead flat. maybe try slowly taking some of that relief out and see if it helps a bit. how high is your action? Do you arch the saddles or keep them flat at the bridge? I usually stay more towards the flat side.

~M.

Originally Posted by davebelcher98

Dang sorry for no pics yet...long story there.

So, Michael, you were right on. The problem with the high 3 strings was indeed that there virtually was no angle in the nut slots. A very fast fix with nut files. The guitar now rings as it should!

I think the only other thing to be done with the guitar for now is probably a good fret re-dressing, which I don't have the money for. The buzz is all over the guitar with good relief and pretty good action (meaning, even with action raised up and a bit of relief I'm getting the exact same buzz all over the fretboard in different spots, some of which are "fret-outs").

Thanks for all the advice again.

dave b

[davebelcher98]

These are just of the bridge and the ferules for now -- still taking these with my phone! Sorry for crappy quality.

Michael, my action is set around 0.010" (what is that, roughly 0.25 mm?) at the 8th fret low E side...and I am curving the saddles...just a bit, to conform with the fretboard radius. It's probably flatter than it is curved though -- I don't have a fretboard radius tool. Sighting it from the headstock, I can see some relief, so I may try taking a bit out.

But, like I said, I'm having fret outs not just above the 9th fret, but pretty much all over the place. For instance, the A string frets out at the 1st fret and 9th fret, but buzzes very close to fret out at 7th...and on the D string 9th fret (I think the 10th fret must need to be recrowned actually) it frets out, and if I bend up 1/4th a tone pulling down (toward high E string) it still frets out; but bending it up while pushing up (toward low E string), the fret out disappears! So, this to me sounds like I might have an issue with the 10 fret D through high E strings, but not on the A or E strings. I don't know; just seems to me from wherever I've adjusted truss and action, the buzz remains. So, I thought it must be fret related (or perhaps nut related still -- just gonna get a new bone nut for this thing), and not action or truss. Anyway.

Pics are of guitar just after installation, prior to setup. Thanks!
0626091120-01.jpg
0626091120-03.jpg

[davebelcher98]

Those ferrule holes look nasty, don't they? Like I said previously: the shop I got the graph techs from did the string through conversion; must not have had a drill press. Since they were doing it pretty much straight "trade" for the store credit on the graph techs open package, I couldn't really complain about the quality. I shouldn't have any problems from the offset crooked holes here should I? I couldn't think of why that would affect intonation or anything...only the amount of tension at the saddle, right?

[davebelcher98]

Oh, and more pics to come, by the way! I promise!

[Oldschoolwax]

WOW, that's crazy low action, I run closer to 1mm at the 8th fret! standard "starting" action for Teles is usually 1.6mm at the 17th fret, I'm guessing you're way under. You my need to shim the neck a bit or shim up the saddles ( neck should be way easier... )

Like that old "relic" Bridge you got! hehehe! gotta take your knobs and control plate for a weekend at the beach in NC!

[Oldschoolwax]

oh wouldn't worry about the holes, though if you don'
t have a deep enough drill press, it's best top drill through the high and low e from the top, then do the remaining four only 3/4 through , then finish them off from the bottom by hand with the plate as a guide. Woulda been cool if it was like an S curve! =)

[davebelcher98]

Originally Posted by Oldschoolwax

WOW, that's crazy low action, I run closer to 1mm at the 8th fret! standard "starting" action for Teles is usually 1.6mm at the 17th fret, I'm guessing you're way under. You my need to shim the neck a bit or shim up the saddles ( neck should be way easier... )

Like that old "relic" Bridge you got! hehehe! gotta take your knobs and control plate for a weekend at the beach in NC!

Sorry...that should have been my relief measurements!! Action is pretty close to around 1/16 in. or 4/64...

[davebelcher98]

Originally Posted by davebelcher98

Sorry...that should have been my relief measurements!! Action is pretty close to around 1/16 in. or 4/64...

That's at 17th fret low E by the way...

[davebelcher98]

Originally Posted by Oldschoolwax

WOW, that's crazy low action, I run closer to 1mm at the 8th fret! standard "starting" action for Teles is usually 1.6mm at the 17th fret, I'm guessing you're way under. You my need to shim the neck a bit or shim up the saddles ( neck should be way easier... )

Like that old "relic" Bridge you got! hehehe! gotta take your knobs and control plate for a weekend at the beach in NC!

They are sort of snake like aren't they?! On the relic -- yeah, I was thinking the same myself...some sand, salt water, and some sun might do the trick...

[davebelcher98]

hey Michael (or anyone else that might still be haunting this thread!), here are some (somewhat) better pics:

100_4966.jpg

100_4961.jpg

100_4964.jpg

So, one more thing I was thinking of...I considered three possibilities about this bridge:

1. This is really a 72 bridge and I need to get it back to Michael so he can make a couple hundred bones off of it (doubt it since he so generously sent it to me for free!);
2. This is a "relic" job of a 72 RI bridge;
3. Michael played this bridge hard!!!!

Ha.

[davebelcher98]

The saddles shine nice and pretty in that first pic!

[Oldschoolwax]

That is a played hard and put away wet 1992 MIJ Tele Custom RI Bridge! ( you can tell by the metric Allen key height screws... ) Lookin' good! BTW, what kind of case is that it looks cool, is it semi soft??

I think this old guitar is gonna be your friend for a long time! =)

~Michael

[Oldschoolwax]

Seems so new... but it's a 17 year old bridge, no wonder!

[davebelcher98]

Originally Posted by Oldschoolwax

That is a played hard and put away wet 1992 MIJ Tele Custom RI Bridge! ( you can tell by the metric Allen key height screws... ) Lookin' good! BTW, what kind of case is that it looks cool, is it semi soft??

I think this old guitar is gonna be your friend for a long time! =)

~Michael

Ha....well, it's an awesome bridge no matter...

The case is a "Road Ready" -- I think it might be Guitar Center's brand. I used to work there, and had a friend who basically gave it to me for free. As far as I know, it's a hardshell with a soft cover. I agree about the guitar -- I sure am warming up to it!

[davebelcher98]

Originally Posted by davebelcher98

Ha....well, it's an awesome bridge no matter...

The case is a "Road Ready" -- I think it might be Guitar Center's brand. I used to work there, and had a friend who basically gave it to me for free. As far as I know, it's a hardshell with a soft cover. I agree about the guitar -- I sure am warming up to it!

Did you notice I had to stick some foam in there! The guitar wasn't exactly a tight fit in the case -- foam works like a charm though!

[Oldschoolwax]

Originally Posted by davebelcher98

Did you notice I had to stick some foam in there! The guitar wasn't exactly a tight fit in the case -- foam works like a charm though!

Yeah, noticed that had a few cases like that myself, or ones where it rested on the neck without much support so I built it some! =)

[davebelcher98]

Ok...put some new compensated brass saddles on the tele (Allparts), and I love the sound! Here are some new pics.

100_5065.jpg

100_5066.jpg

I have to say, though, the saddles were improperly compensated!! I bought these from a shop in Nashville passing through on the weekend of the 4th, but didn't install them till I got back home. When I opened the package, I realized there were two saddles angled in the direction that the middle position saddle should be angled with only one in the direction the low E/A and B/high E should take. Rotating them doesn't do a thing cause they're angled on both sides the same way...aargh. My adventures in bridgedom continue. So, I had to actually flip one of them over (you can see the little indentation on the top middle of the B/high E saddle in the pics). Works fine, but geez, is this common? That seems like a pretty big mistake for compensated saddles to have it all backwards!

I also shimmed the neck. I had to put just a bit of relief in the neck for fret outs, but now I'm still having buzz above the 8th fret...which probably means I need to straighten the neck and raise the saddles. But they're up pretty high already with the shim. Regardless, this thing plays and sounds much better now with the new saddles and a good angle from saddles to the neck with the shim.

[Oldschoolwax]

Weird things happen my friend! Hehehe... as long as they work. you're pretty far back onto the mounting screws, which is a drag, I have a tele that sits on the mounting screws and it was hard to get it not to float, I had to take the screw heads to a wet belt sander and flatten the heads. Looks like it's rockin' now though, perhaps you can do a little bit of a level on that one buzzing fret and polish it up with some fine grades of sandpaper... just enough to take the edge off.

[boris bubbanov]

Dave, one of those 3 Allparts saddles has a dot on it. That should be your D-G saddle, and I presume it is canted the correct way. One of the remaining 2 is canted the wrong way. Identify it, then take the height screws out and thread them back in the opposite way so the adjustment part is on the opposite end of the barrel. THEN flip it and it will intonate the right way.

If the ferrule misalignment bothers you, you have 2-3-4 chances to get it better but you gotta find someone skilled to do each step:

Recess the ferrules, flush with the body. You may wanna first plug and redrill the most sinful of the 6 misaligned ferrules. The drilling for the larger diameter covers up the old sins and creates a cool look;

If that fails (but it shouldn't) you can rout for a basic Ferrel Block from Taipantone;

If that got botched, you can do one of Taipan's fancier, flanged versions or even the big Phil Jacoby version.


++++

Folks, look how close the strings pass to the height screws on Dave's Allparts TB 5125 saddles. Beware of this, and maybe buy another brand since this can hobble you in terms of placing the string break point over the saddle. It works fine for 3/4ths of the guitars but just a bug in your ear.

[davebelcher98]

Thanks Boris...I thought I remembered seeing dots on all three of the bottoms of those saddles, but perhaps I was mistaken. I'll check that out. I was also a bit nervous about the proximity of the strings to the edges of the height screw holes...especially because of the way those holes are countersinked -- could pinch a string if it got kinked even a bit. Thanks. That's something for me to look out for!

peace,

dave b

[davebelcher98]

Boris,

Any recommendations on better saddles that won't break the bank -- i.e., other than Glendale or Callaham's? Should I have gone with the StewMac's? What of the Wilkinson compensated saddles? Thanks.

dave b

[davebelcher98]

Oh, and there are indented dots on the bottom of all three of the Allparts saddles -- nothing on the top...well, that is to say, the way they came with the screws threaded in the package, there were dots on bottom of each saddle, but no dots on top.

[davebelcher98]

Something else you may or may not be able to notice from those pics. The Low E/A saddle height adjustment screw on the Low E side is right up against the far bass side bridge plate attachment screw. And yet, the A string could still be lengthened just a hair (leaving the low E only slightly flat). That's not my only concern, though. I should be getting better intonation than a traditional vintage saddle setup, but the B/high E saddle (the one I had to back the screws out of and flip) does not angle as much as the low E/A -- perhaps as Boris said, the saddle I'm using for my D/G is the one that should be in that position and flipped...regardless, there are no markers to indicate which one would need to be flipped, and I don't have another set of strings laying around, so I'd really rather not keep flipping em to see if I get one that works!! I'm guessing I have to just get new saddles...any bets whether Allparts would send me a correct saddle?

Thanks guys.

dave b

[yegbert]

Originally Posted by davebelcher98

That's not my only concern, though. I should be getting better intonation than a traditional vintage saddle setup, but the B/high E saddle (the one I had to back the screws out of and flip) does not angle as much as the low E/A

Check whether the intonation adjustment screws, especially the outer two, are pointing straight down the neck. It's hard to tell from an angled picture, but I think your saddles are a little too wide for each other, causing the outer two to splay out. This would reduce the angle of the the saddle for the 1st and 2nd string and increase the angle of the saddle for the 5th and 6th string.

If that's the case, you can file, grind or cut some material off the ends of the saddles that touch each other to reduce or eliminate this problem.

I've had that problem, and solved it that way, both with the brass compensated saddles from Stewmac and with the brass compensated Joe Barden saddles on the JB bridge made for American Standards. When I do that trimming, I like to take off a little at a time so I can adjust the angles of the ends and have the ends "face" each other more squarely and along a line parallel to the strings.

Originally Posted by davebelcher98

Boris,

Any recommendations on better saddles that won't break the bank -- i.e., other than Glendale or Callaham's? Should I have gone with the StewMac's? What of the Wilkinson compensated saddles? Thanks.

dave b

I'm not Boris, but I think the RS Guitarworks saddles are a good value. You can get them in brass, steel or aluminum. They are shaped like the non-adjustable Wilkinson compensated saddles. I prefer steel saddles, like that shaped design, and appreciate their low cost; so they are a natural choice for me. Callaham has some with that shape too, one of these days I want to try them, but as you have noticed they aren't cheap.

As I noted, I find the Stewmac saddles to need some trimming of the ends. If you don't mind that work and prefer the angle-drilled round type over the shape of the RS Guitarworks, they are a reasonable value, but cost a little more than the RS Guitarworks last time I checked.

[davebelcher98]

Cool, thanks Yegbert. I noticed in another thread somewhere folks talking about filing the edges of those things to get a better fit in there -- and I thought that might be why I was getting less angle...too much "spread" or "fan." What kind of file did you use? I'm not sure if I want to try that or not, but I have a basic metal file...and I know that the best thing to do when filing is to go very slow, little bit at a time (easy take off, hard to put back on, as Dan Erlewine always says), but I'm still a bit hesitant! BUT, it's good to know if I did want to, I could get a compensated set for 50% of the price with the RSguitarworks! Again, thanks for the tips.

peace,

dave b

[davebelcher98]

Just for an update folks:

I contacted Allparts and they are willing to replace the whole set for me, so after I play my last summer gig (nothing else lined up after that), I'll pull these suckers, send em back, and should have a correctly intonated set. After that, I may still need either to make some modifications or to get a new set (as Boris has suggested), but at least I'll be working with a complete and correct set!

[Frontier9]

Those RS Guitarworks saddles are a great bargain. I got tired of my angled saddles (I had problems with the strings "migrating") and I just liked the look of the straight saddles more. I actually bought one set of brass and one set of steel and put one steel saddle on the E/A side, just like my old Glendales. All for less than $25, after shipping. Another nice thing about these straight saddles is that you can fine tune the intonation with a file.

Oh, I'd like to suggest that you take out the shim and put more relief in your neck to cure your fret buzz. Just my opinion and I know some will disagree with me... but I know it works and you will have more surface to surface contact at the neck and pocket. YMMV, IMHO, AFAIK, etc...

[davebelcher98]

Frontier9,

Yeah, thanks for the suggestion; I actually was already planning to remove the shim next time I can get some new strings -- even though it might be possible to use the old strings, I really prefer not doing that... Well, I guess I could loosen the tension quite a bit and then remove the neck (I know some folks do that for various other repair sorts of things). Anyway, I recognized that the shim hasn't actually helped, so I already had planned to remove it. Thanks for the advice. I am definitely going to check out the RSguitarworks if these allparts end up not working out. Thanks again.

dave b

[davebelcher98]

Well, I sent the saddles back to Allparts, and they sent me a replacement set back -- pretty quickly too -- but with an upgrade to the Joe Barden's (which have the filed angles on the edges of the left and right side of the barrels so the saddles fit together more snugly with less splay). I'll try em out in a couple of days and let you know how they do! [But give me a couple days -- that way I can get some pics up...we are literally in the process of moving right now!]

dave b