Replacement Tuners for American Standard

[Godot]

I have an '08 AM STD Tele that I'd like to put some vintage style tuners on and I just wanted to be sure which bushings to get.

I plan on ordering Gotoh Vintage Staggered tuners - http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/t...nlinegotoh.htm - which are for 8.75mm (11/32") holes.

I'm assuming I need the 10mm (3/8") Bushings - http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/T..._Bushings.html - in Round Nickel.

Is this correct? Does the American Standard Telecaster have 10mm tuner holes?

And I also understand that I'll have to drill some pilot holes for the new tuner mounting screws.

I did a search on this and couldn't find the info - thanks guys.

[mellecaster]

It looks like that will do the Trick...the Gotohs have .250 dia. post...which will work well w/ the Stew-Mac bushings...and the 10mm is correct...so you should be good to go.

[jivetrain]

10mm seems to be the standard size for modern fenders. i used 10mm bushings to put the gotoh's into my tele deluxe over a year and a half ago and they're still working great with no problems.

the gotoh's are great tuners, but so are the american standard stock tuners. may i ask why you want to replace them? i have an american standard and a 72 deluxe with the gotoh's as mentioned above and i consider the tuning machines on both to be equal. even though i love the vintage gotoh's, there's no real functional improvement to be had by installing them over what you have now and i would never go through the trouble of removing the stock american standard tuners and drilling (yes, you will have to drill new holes) for them, unless it was purely about cosmetics/style/mojo/whatever you call it. i find the gotoh's to be cooler overall and neater to restring while the am. standard tuners are slightly more stable and reliable. they both have the same gear ratio and work without complaints... i'd put some thought into it before you make your decision.

[Godot]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I have no complaints about the stock tuners as far as keeping the guitar in tune goes. And I'm not really trying to turn a Standard into something that it's not (vintage). I guess I'm just a fan of vintage style tuners, specifically the split shaft design. I like the way the vintage style Gotohs feel. Something about the stock tuners just aesthetically turn me off. The shape of the keys, the screw in bushing and the square housing with no mounting screws. I've got a CS '69 Strat and I've even grown accustomed to the goofy F tuners. Just not these things...

I'm going to drill the bridge plate out for three barrel saddles as well at some point. Don't get me wrong, it's a great guitar stock as is, but I'm a tweaker...what do you want? I've played it stock for long enough and I want to try some things with it now thati know I'm defintely going to keep it.

[FiddlinJim]

Godot,
I went through this a couple of years ago. From another old thread:

So, I got the conversion bushings for my Am Std from Guitar Parts Resource and they fit the Gotoh staggered tuners just fine. I had to give the holes in the headstock a little help with a step-bit so I could get the bushings in and they went in fine. I used a #53 (slightly bigger than 1.5mm, smaller than 1/16) drill bit for the screw holes and, miraculously, I didn't screw it up.

This was (is) a '99 Am Std. neck and I put Gotoh staggered vintage tuners on it. The bushings I got from Guitar Parts Resource are:

tem Name: ADAPTER TYPE NICKEL PRESS IN TUNER BUSHINGS (6)
Item Number: TK 0900-001

Worked perfectly for me. I'd previously tried some from guitarfetish and the ID was too small for the Gotoh tuner posts.

[boris bubbanov]

You're on the right track, Godot. Too bad Stew Mac sells only the matching post split shaft Gotohs and their locking counterparts, but not the staggered ones.

And since GPR websales won't interact with the outside world - they could have those conversions (or could get them) but we have no way to know.

I respectfully differ with Jivetrain. In my use, the Gotoh stands very tall over the Schaller style dies casts on Am Se and Am Std guitars. I cannot wait to deep six those die casts.

[Godot]

I appreciate y'all's input.

So yeah, Guitar Parts Resource has these bushings too, which I didn't notice. http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/t...tsbushings.htm

The part number - TK-0900-001 (Nickel press-in adapter bushings. Converts large peghead holes for use with vintage post keys) is there and I'd rather just order from one place for this. These are the ones you used, Fiddlin Jim.

But...there's also this part number - W-TAB-N (6) nickel finish press-in tuner adapter bushings. Converts modern 3/8"(10mm) peghead holes for use with 6mm vintage style string posts. Correct for Wilkinson vintage style tuners and various import brands.) Which specifies that they're made for 10mm and to me looks like the exact tuner bushings that Stew Mac has.

Would BOTH of these work?

[mellecaster]

Originally Posted by Godot

I appreciate y'all's input.

So yeah, Guitar Parts Resource has these bushings too, which I didn't notice. http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/t...tsbushings.htm

The part number - TK-0900-001 (Nickel press-in adapter bushings. Converts large peghead holes for use with vintage post keys) is there and I'd rather just order from one place for this. These are the ones you used, Fiddlin Jim.

But...there's also this part number - W-TAB-N (6) nickel finish press-in tuner adapter bushings. Converts modern 3/8"(10mm) peghead holes for use with 6mm vintage style string posts. Correct for Wilkinson vintage style tuners and various import brands.) Which specifies that they're made for 10mm and to me looks like the exact tuner bushings that Stew Mac has.

Would BOTH of these work?

The bushings you want to go with the Gotohs would have an ID of 1/4" .250...or 6.35mm...not the last ones you mentioned...you were on the right track the 1st time.

[RockStarNick]

I gotta ask a question here. Are the Fender, Cast, American Standard staggered tuners REALLY made by schaller, or are they just schaller-style?

Cuz they wouldn't keep my Stratocaster in tune at all. And it's a hardtail!!! I put on some real-deal M6 mini Schallers, and 2 string trees, and now the tuning is rock-solid.

[Godot]

Thanks guys. I'll go ahead and order these TK-0900-001 bushings then. It'll be easier getting the parts from the same place. I'll post some before and after shots too.

Eventually I'll get to the drilling out of my bridge plate for the Callaham three barrels, but I've got another thread somewhere to update about that.

[Tlon]

Just wondering how the installation went. Did you end up doing it? Would love to see pics.

[Godot]

Alright, update to this thread -

I received my tuners and other parts Wedensday and last night I went ahead a disassembled my Tele. I test fit one of these conversion bushings and it would not fit into the tuner hole. Without reaming (which I'd rather not do) or hammering (which could split the headstock) these things are just not going in.

I ordered these from Guitar Parts Resource and the part number was - TK-0900-001. There are no dimensions associated with this part number on their website, but I assume they are 10.5mm. At least they measure right at .4" - which is 10.16mm.



The actual tuner hole measures .379" - which works out to 9.62mm. So the bushings are exactly .021" (.53mm) too large. I just need 10mm instead of 10.5mm.




I believe I should have ordered the other part number that I mentioned earlier in this thread which is W-TAB-N on their site. These are for modern 3/8" (10mm) holes, although a 3/8" drill bit slides through this tuner hole rather loosely. I called GPR and have an email in to them regarding this. All I need is for them to confirm that the W-TAB-N bushings are SMALLER than the TK-0900-001 and I'll be set, I think.

Ugg...This is the piddlely aesthetic portion of the upgrades I'm doing - I'm way more excited to drill for the 3 Barrel saddles and solder in the pickups! Go figure the little bushings would hold me up. I'll get it worked out - But I just wanted to document my troubles here on the forum so others can choose not to repeat them.

[Godot]

Fiddlin Jim - I just reread your post about opening up the holes a little with a step bit - maybe I'll just have to do that then.

I have a step bit...I just didn't want to drop $50 on a tapered reamer.

[Godot]

Got an email back from GPR -

"W-TAB-N is for 6mm string posts, which is smaller than the 1/4" posts on
the gotohs. the 10mm measurement is very common for guitars with screw in
bushings. have never had a fit issue with those."

Those won't do it either, smaller I.D.

So either I ream this out with a step bit...or I give the 3/8" conversion bushings from Stew Mac a shot. I'm kinda on the fence here...

I wish I knew if the ones I ordered were the same as the ones Stew Mac sells. Anybody have a set of the THESE and some calipers?

[Godot]

OK (crickets) I got the bushings in. It took a little coaxing with a step bit and a bastard file. I removed enough wood to get them in halfway, then pressed them in flush with vise grips.

So for the record, Guitar Parts Resource conversion bushings TK-0900-001 don't fit American Standard Teles without reaming out the holes.

The rest of the guitar's done too, just haven't set harmonics yet.

[boris bubbanov]

Glad that worked out without mishap.

I strongly recommend a "Irwin" brand reamer (or similar) for opening the bores a smidge. Made in USA, it is actually the product of another manufacturer (whose name I can't recall) and is about 5.5 inches long, T grip and will have many other apps also. I used to use a handle end of a file, but I chipped some poly on a MIM Nashville headstock doing it that way - I would use only a reamer or some sandpaper wrapped into a column shape, knowing what I know after the fact.

[Vizcaster]

Anyone else considering this, take a look at the TonePros Kluson reproduction tuners with split shafts and round buttons. They're smoother operating than the Gotoh Kluson style tuners (not by much, you can't go wrong with the Gotos) but the Tone Pros are available with bolt bushings so there's no need for conversion bushings and you get a little extra hold there with the bolt.

I've done both - drop fit the Tone Pros with bolt bushings, and Gotoh tuners in conversion bushings - and they're both great ways to go. Tone Pros are a little shinier though, edging them out on the choices. It's possible the gotohs with conversion bushings are lighter, which was a consideration for my twelve string.

[boris bubbanov]

I'm totally infatuated by the way the press in bushings look, as compared to the larger bolt style bushings.

But I could understand, if the maple was badly crushed by overtightening or if the color differential was really obnoxious, that some might choose the Tonepros instead. Here's pictures from 2007, showing 2006 guitars with some darkening of the finish in the exposed area for that first year with the bigger stock tuner on there.






Now it is 2009 and the evidence is gone.

I wanna apologize and clarify in my earlier post. When I said the Gotohs stood tall, I meant I liked them and that they seemed very good - no intention of suggesting a difference in height.